Referees/Officials

[Blue Mooner]

Since 2010/11, we've had 52 penalties awarded for us and 17 against, which is the most for and the least against. 16 more than the rags for and 5 fewer against.

Firstly given our dominance in most games since 2010/11 including 4 golden gloves for Joe Hart it's hardly surprising that the penalty stats are in our favour.

The key point about penalty stats is context ie were, they or weren't they penalties, the other perhaps more important aspect that is missed about those stats is the impact on the game of those penalties we were awarded. Also much more meaningful would be number of penalties scored vs time in opposition box and vice versa for penalties conceded. That might paint a very different picture. I did a review of our penalties won when our friend Mr Sinatra trotted out these stats a while back. In many cases many of those penalties we were awarded were against teams 9/10 we were expected to beat, after we were already two or three up and very rarely 'match winning' penalties in the last 5 minutes to win a game.

The context of the 5 penalties in 8 games is not unusual when all 5 were absolutely penalties. Nothing strange in that with the context. What is stranger is that since that magnificent start we have only had 1 in 14 I'm not sure how you can explain that dramatic turn around in fortunes without some deliberate manipulation of decision making.

It seems that many people are starting to wake up to this and we should continue to highlight the shocking nature of these decisions or not will never change.

 

[Alan Oakes Shinpads]

Rugby has it as well right? Or is that for Tries only?

Also used to rule on potential foul play and its not just the referee who can ask for its use. The touch judge will report to the ref who will look at what he may have missed as well as the TMO(4th official) can also ask tell the ref to review an incident.

 

[aguero93:20]

LOL. At least no one would be pretending it was fair if he was running PGMOL.

Not too sure about that, everyone is happy to ignore Riley, Mason, Taylor etc, Walton and Webb got away with it for years.

 

[shemnel]

has Bluemoon got a comprehensive dodgy pen decision list going for this season?

seems like we need one

 

[BlueLarry18]

The rags have had 1 penalty all season. Clattenburg turned down a stone waller for handball when Stoke were winning 1 nil the other day. Why would he do that if he's meant to be helping them? Why have they only had 1 penalty when the refs are supposed to help them? God knows they've needed it a lot. Maybe it's just because the refs are shit? Maybe there is no conspiracy? Every set of fans thinks they get the shitty end of the stick. And we probably all do but it's just down to the lack of quality refs.

 

[kaz7]

The rags have had 1 penalty all season. Clattenburg turned down a stone waller for handball when Stoke were winning 1 nil the other day. Why would he do that if he's meant to be helping them? Why have they only had 1 penalty when the refs are supposed to help them? God knows they've needed it a lot. Maybe it's just because the refs are shit? Maybe there is no conspiracy? Every set of fans thinks they get the shitty end of the stick. And we probably all do but it's just down to the lack of quality refs.

They have also had no reds on 3 times,endless offside goals,they are being looked after make no mistake about that

 

[Rolee]

The rags have had 1 penalty all season. Clattenburg turned down a stone waller for handball when Stoke were winning 1 nil the other day. Why would he do that if he's meant to be helping them? Why have they only had 1 penalty when the refs are supposed to help them? God knows they've needed it a lot. Maybe it's just because the refs are shit? Maybe there is no conspiracy? Every set of fans thinks they get the shitty end of the stick. And we probably all do but it's just down to the lack of quality refs.

What was the stonewaller? When the ball hit Pieters hand?

 

[Yates]

Also used to rule on potential foul play and its not just the referee who can ask for its use. The touch judge will report to the ref who will look at what he may have missed as well as the TMO(4th official) can also ask tell the ref to review an incident.

So Football is literally the only big sport with money behind it not to implement this technology? Basketball, American Rugby, Rugby, Tennis all do. I think even Cricket does as well?

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Ah, so we will have to wait and see if Dean refs next week

Not on in the FA Cup weekend anywhere as far as I can tell.
Burnley-Leicester midweek next week.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Firstly given our dominance in most games since 2010/11 including 4 golden gloves for Joe Hart it's hardly surprising that the penalty stats are in our favour.

The key point about penalty stats is context ie were, they or weren't they penalties, the other perhaps more important aspect that is missed about those stats is the impact on the game of those penalties we were awarded. Also much more meaningful would be number of penalties scored vs time in opposition box and vice versa for penalties conceded. That might paint a very different picture. I did a review of our penalties won when our friend Mr Sinatra trotted out these stats a while back. In many cases many of those penalties we were awarded were against teams 9/10 we were expected to beat, after we were already two or three up and very rarely 'match winning' penalties in the last 5 minutes to win a game.

The context of the 5 penalties in 8 games is not unusual when all 5 were absolutely penalties. Nothing strange in that with the context. What is stranger is that since that magnificent start we have only had 1 in 14 I'm not sure how you can explain that dramatic turn around in fortunes without some deliberate manipulation of decision making.

It seems that many people are starting to wake up to this and we should continue to highlight the shocking nature of these decisions or not will never change.

I agree with this.
The amount of correct decisions is irrelevant.
The amount of incorrect decisions is critical, with the amount of arguable ones given of vague interest.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Well ye, which is why I the ref normally goes to where the linesman indicates but didn't in this case, eliminates any confusion

I'd say it makes no sense to give it where the linesman is, as he can't cross the halfway line.

For long passes, if a player running forwards, the freekick is usually not where the player is when the ball is played.

 

[aguero93:20]

I agree with this.
The amount of correct decisions is irrelevant.
The amount of incorrect decisions is critical, with the amount of arguable ones given of vague interest.

Agreed. With the frequency and volume of incorrect decisions in the league these days the really isn't any other options beside video technology and dragging the ****s into a field and shooting them.

 

[BlueLarry18]

What was the stonewaller? When the ball hit Pieters hand?

Can't remember who it was, I was a few gargles down. I just remember thinking it was a pen. There was another incident when Shawcross practically clotheslined Rashford right in the refs eye line and he didn't blow up. United badly needed help the other day and they got none. It's just doesn't fit with the conspiracy theory.

I think fans of every club just choose to remember the bad decisions against their team. Being from Ireland nearly all my mates are rags or scouse followers and the rags are adamant the refs hate them. Every game they get ripped off. Apparently they have pen after pen turned down. The refs are just shit and until I see some actual evidence I won't believe in a conspiracy. And if I ever do see tangible evidence I'll stop watching because what's the point?!

 

[Blue Mooner]

The rags have had 1 penalty all season. Clattenburg turned down a stone waller for handball when Stoke were winning 1 nil the other day. Why would he do that if he's meant to be helping them? Why have they only had 1 penalty when the refs are supposed to help them? God knows they've needed it a lot. Maybe it's just because the refs are shit? Maybe there is no conspiracy? Every set of fans thinks they get the shitty end of the stick. And we probably all do but it's just down to the lack of quality refs.

Its irrelevant how many they have been awarded if there aren't penalties to make the ref can't give them. The key thing is how many should they have been awarded that they haven't. Not sure your example of the stonewall ball to hand against Stoke really qualifies.

How about how the offside law seems to have changed for the rags this season to the extent that one offside goal is being touted for goal of the season! Ycnmiu

 

[Rolee]

Can't remember who it was, I was a few gargles down. I just remember thinking it was a pen. There was another incident when Shawcross practically clotheslined Rashford right in the refs eye line and he didn't blow up. United badly needed help the other day and they got none. It's just doesn't fit with the conspiracy theory.

I think fans of every club just choose to remember the bad decisions against their team. Being from Ireland nearly all my mates are rags or scouse followers and the rags are adamant the refs hate them. Every game they get ripped off. Apparently they have pen after pen turned down. The refs are just shit and until I see some actual evidence I won't believe in a conspiracy. And if I ever do see tangible evidence I'll stop watching because what's the point?!

I don't believe in a conspiracy either but do believe refs are influenced by perceptions.

I watched the rag game and they had two handball penalty shouts, one was when Pieters slid to block a cross, it came off his leg and hit his hand, never a pen ( but like the one that shouldn't have been given against Micah in the League Cup semi against Liverpool a few years back ). The second one was Shawcross, came out with his arms raised with Clattenburg around 4 yards in front, Clattenburg signalled the ball hit his chest when the rag appeal went up, on replay it looked like he may be right but I wasn't sure, certainly not stonewall as it was hard to be sure on replay.

 

[kaz7]

Can't remember who it was, I was a few gargles down. I just remember thinking it was a pen. There was another incident when Shawcross practically clotheslined Rashford right in the refs eye line and he didn't blow up. United badly needed help the other day and they got none. It's just doesn't fit with the conspiracy theory.

I think fans of every club just choose to remember the bad decisions against their team. Being from Ireland nearly all my mates are rags or scouse followers and the rags are adamant the refs hate them. Every game they get ripped off. Apparently they have pen after pen turned down. The refs are just shit and until I see some actual evidence I won't believe in a conspiracy. And if I ever do see tangible evidence I'll stop watching because what's the point?!

The rags shout for pens all the time,4 times in the 2nd half in the last derby when they were losing,Neville said none were,they try and blag the ref every game

 

[toffee balls]

Being from Ireland nearly all my mates are rags or scouse followers and the rags are adamant the refs hate them. Every game they get ripped off. Apparently they have pen after pen turned down. The

4 offside goals in 5 games for the rags.
The sending off at West Ham.
The double standards with Rojo.

We are serial victims of decisions which defy any logic.
Proper head scratches for all except the ref.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

I don't believe in a conspiracy either but do believe refs are influenced by perceptions.

I watched the rag game and they had two handball penalty shouts, one was when Pieters slid to block a cross, it came off his leg and hit his hand, never a pen ( but like the one that shouldn't have been given against Micah in the League Cup semi against Liverpool a few years back ). The second one was Shawcross, came out with his arms raised with Clattenburg around 4 yards in front, Clattenburg signalled the ball hit his chest when the rag appeal went up, on replay it looked like he may be right but I wasn't sure, certainly not stonewall as it was hard to be sure on replay.

Google "Unconscious Bias". There is a whole load of stuff on it. I had to do a course on it at work as part of Equality and Diversity training.

 

[aguero93:20]

Google "Unconscious Bias". There is a whole load of stuff on it. I had to do a course on it at work as part of Equality and Diversity training.

Is that like when you're interviewing for a position and no matter how well the ginger and French candidates score they're not getting the fucking job?

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Is that like when you're interviewing for a position and no matter how well the ginger and French candidates score they're not getting the fucking job?

Exactly!