This is like a prisoner getting angry at the 'stupid idea' that anyone could possibly know freedom outside of the prison. I mean the prisoner knows for sure that they are the best informed and most intelligent person around, right - and yet they don't experience this freedom, so therefore how could it possibly exist?!?!? Then again, perhaps it is wisest to convince oneself that the prison is actually one's home, gradually forgetting any notions of freedom, settling for bread and water whilst decreeing that feasts are but fantasises for the deluded. Sounds great.
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Religion
- Thread starter idahoblues
- Start date
This is like a prisoner getting angry at the 'stupid idea' that anyone could possibly know freedom outside of the prison. I mean the prisoner knows for sure that they are the best informed and most intelligent person around, right - and yet they don't experience this freedom, so therefore how could it possibly exist?!?!? Then again, perhaps it is wisest to convince oneself that the prison is actually one's home, gradually forgetting any notions of freedom, settling for bread and water whilst decreeing that feasts are but fantasises for the deluded. Sounds great.
ok arfur have you any evidence bar faith for this freedom and dont bother with any of your riddles if you don't mind
Ok. Am not sure I have a context to best explain this but will give it a go. And if I fail to communicate then I apologise - not trying to be an ass, just am still learning (albeit slowly perhaps).ok arfur have you any evidence bar faith for this freedom and dont bother with any of your riddles if you don't mind
For me, at times, I have felt like a prisoner of depression - unhappy and seemingly stuck in 'darkness.' Then, through various ways, I have experienced the shackles of
depression being released - whereupon there is a palpable sense of feeling 'lighter,' that joy is now able to freely flow through and as me. This might not fit in with other people's beliefs, it might not fulfil their need for evidence, might even lead to them telling you that you cannot be experiencing what you are. But it is a obvious as obvious can be.
Now, perhaps it is possible to take this idea and 'generalise.' For example I might say that I felt like I have been a prisoner of my own fears. As I come to face them and allow them to be released I come to feel a sense of freedom that some might call Love. Again, there might e those that say that because no-one can pin it down in a laboratory, then it can't exist. Do I listen to them or come to trust what within quite palpably is?
In this way I can find the likes of the bible helpful BUT it can quite easily come to an extra heavily fortified prison - thus perhaps denying its original purpose and twisting its message.
So, one might be able to theorise about freedom from a prison but the real, practical evidence only comes from walking out of the prison doors.
Last edited:
Elbow beards
Well-Known Member
So that's a no thenOk. Am not sure I have a context to best explain this but will give it a go. And if I fail to communicate then I apologise - not trying to be an ass, just am still learning (albeit slowly perhaps).
For me, at times, I have felt like a prisoner of depression - unhappy and seemingly stuck in 'darkness.' Then, through various ways, I have experienced the shackles of
depression being released - whereupon there is a palpable sense of feeling 'lighter,' that joy is now able to freely flow through and as me. This might not fit in with other people's beliefs, it might not fulfil their need for evidence, might even lead to them telling you that you cannot be experiencing what you are. But it is a obvious as obvious can be.
Now, perhaps it is possible to take this idea and 'generalise.' For example I might say that I felt like I have been a prisoner of my own fears. As I come to face them and allow them to be released I come to feel a sense of freedom that some might call Love. Again, there might e those that say that because no-one can pin it down in a laboratory, then it can't exist. Do I listen to them or come to trust what within quite palpably is?
In this way I can find the likes of the bible BUT it can quite easily come to an extra heavily fortified prison - thus perhaps denying its original purpose and twisting its message.
So, one might be able to theorise about freedom from a prison but the real, practical evidence only comes from walking out of the prison doors.
Ok. Am not sure I have a context to best explain this but will give it a go. And if I fail to communicate then I apologise - not trying to be an ass, just am still learning (albeit slowly perhaps).
For me, at times, I have felt like a prisoner of depression - unhappy and seemingly stuck in 'darkness.' Then, through various ways, I have experienced the shackles of
depression being released - whereupon there is a palpable sense of feeling 'lighter,' that joy is now able to freely flow through and as me. This might not fit in with other people's beliefs, it might not fulfil their need for evidence, might even lead to them telling you that you cannot be experiencing what you are. But it is a obvious as obvious can be.
Now, perhaps it is possible to take this idea and 'generalise.' For example I might say that I felt like I have been a prisoner of my own fears. As I come to face them and allow them to be released I come to feel a sense of freedom that some might call Love. Again, there might e those that say that because no-one can pin it down in a laboratory, then it can't exist. Do I listen to them or come to trust what within quite palpably is?
In this way I can find the likes of the bible BUT it can quite easily come to an extra heavily fortified prison - thus perhaps denying its original purpose and twisting its message.
So, one might be able to theorise about freedom from a prison but the real, practical evidence only comes from walking out of the prison doors.
but why does this feeling lead to the rationale that there is afterlife/heaven/god (i have to assume that is what you mean) that's quite a leap on a feeling
... about freedom from a prison but the real, practical evidence only comes from walking out of the prison doors.
It’s not practical evidence.
The Inspiration and desire to escape, you correctly (in your case) attributed to your brains use of a religious crutch to help you escape. There are an infinite number of other crutches, people just need to locate any sort of ‘hook’ to take them out.
Your brain then has taken that as a sign that a religious self help book, must indicate god did it, and you must remain pious and trapped in the belief of that particular god, one that your brain happened to pick, all by itself.
Your brain has made you escape from one prison of your own making (presumably/generally- I don’t know), into another, trapping your body and now brain in another prison, but this time of thought and illogicality.
Religious stories , as with any stories, are useful in providing inspiration, assurance, belief and reaffirmation. They are stories, allegories though - nothing proves god is more than a way for the ancient humans to try and make sense of the world ...and ultimately control their fellow humans - prisoners of their own minds.
In the case of your religious book, do you do the usual of taking the bits you happen to agree with and preaching those, whilst ignoring and not doing the rest ?
Anyone here ever been to pub? Maybe this pub has a door at the front. And they have a sign on the door which says 'push.' Some may follow this instruction, enter the pub and go enjoy a pint. Others will stand outside, try to pull the door then insist it is impossible to enter the pub and enjoy a pint. "Give me proof' they might say. "Push the door, go enter the enter the pub and find out yourself' one might respond. ' No, I demand that you give me evidence that it is possible to enter the pub and enjoy a pint, by pulling the door open.' ' Whatever the fuck. Am off for a pint. Enjoy.' Cheers ;)
Anyone here ever been to pub? Maybe this pub has a door at the front. And they have a sign on the door which says 'push.' Some may follow this instruction, enter the pub and go enjoy a pint. Others will stand outside, try to pull the door then insist it is impossible to enter the pub and enjoy a pint. "Give me proof' they might say. "Push the door, go enter the enter the pub and find out yourself' one might respond. ' No, I demand that you give me evidence that it is possible to enter the pub and enjoy a pint, by pulling the door open.' ' Whatever the fuck. Am off for a pint. Enjoy.' Cheers ;)
there is a reason your are talking in riddles and not answering simple direct questions
Anyone here ever been to pub? Maybe this pub has a door at the front. And they have a sign on the door which says 'push.' Some may follow this instruction, enter the pub and go enjoy a pint. Others will stand outside, try to pull the door then insist it is impossible to enter the pub and enjoy a pint. "Give me proof' they might say. "Push the door, go enter the enter the pub and find out yourself' one might respond. ' No, I demand that you give me evidence that it is possible to enter the pub and enjoy a pint, by pulling the door open.' ' Whatever the fuck. Am off for a pint. Enjoy.' Cheers ;)
False equivalency.
There is a door nobody has walked through. We don't know what is on the other side but legend has it there is nothing behind the door. The religious man never tests the door and never finds out. The atheist has a look outside the door and assesses the options before opening it and seeing what's inside. He takes pictures. The religious man denies the evidence. He denies the door even exists.