Restoring the Death Penalty in Britain

[Bluemoon115]

I think it would see a lot more guilty people walk free tbh.

You're sat on a jury. You're 99% sure the guy is guilty of an atrocious murder. However, there is 1% of doubt there. A doubt that festers, and plays on your mind.

If prison is his punishment, the doubt could be investigated, fresh evidence could be found, and he could be found innocent on appeal.

Could you find a man guilty, handing him a death sentence, with that lingering doubt still in there? What if he's posthumously found innocent? Could you live with yourself, having been the one to wrongly find him guilty?

Or would that doubt wriggle to the front of your mind. Force you, and other people on the jury to be too fearful of killing the wrong man?

I think it would make the police and the cps work harder and and as a consequence of that the defendants solicitors also work harder.

What if the defendant admits guilt?

Then the jury is dismissed.<br /><br />-- Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:48 pm --<br /><br />

I think it would see a lot more guilty people walk free tbh.

You're sat on a jury. You're 99% sure the guy is guilty of an atrocious murder. However, there is 1% of doubt there. A doubt that festers, and plays on your mind.

If prison is his punishment, the doubt could be investigated, fresh evidence could be found, and he could be found innocent on appeal.

Could you find a man guilty, handing him a death sentence, with that lingering doubt still in there? What if he's posthumously found innocent? Could you live with yourself, having been the one to wrongly find him guilty?

Or would that doubt wriggle to the front of your mind. Force you, and other people on the jury to be too fearful of killing the wrong man?

Judges pass sentences a jury only determines if someone is guilty or not guilty.

I think he is well aware of that.

I believe he is saying that certain people on a jury's sense of reasonable doubt would shift if they knew that a conviction would result in an execution.

It is not inconceivable that there may be some form of civil disobedience from some jurors who would refuse to convict in a under trial under any circumstances. Given the unfettered powers of jurors to make unjustified decisions in a trial this could prove to be a problem that the pro-capital punishment lobby need to consider more carefully than they previously have.

I suppose we could make it so that only the bloody thirsty, sorry, pro CP folk can sit on a jury.

 

[Bill]

The evidence that supports his absurd and incorrect point of view.

I'm sure he can find it if he looks hard enough.

that absurd that if there was a referendem on it here it would be installed instantly.

I'm not sure that you're correct there. I think it would be a very close vote.

I'm sorry Bill, but your response to Skashion's post reeked of someone who is ignoring the facts in front of him because of his point of view. You are as entitled to your point of view as anyone, but have the courage of your convictions. You clearly believe in the death penalty but to suggest that it acts as any meaningful form of deterrent is absurd, especially based on Skashion's evidence.

it deters the murderer mate, bet your life he wont re offend.<br /><br />-- Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:08 pm --<br /><br />

At least now a mod disagrees with your point of view people can hopefully debate it without being called a 'fucking idiot' or 'BNP supporting daily fail reader' etc

No, I'd pretty much put de niro in those categories. The fact that he's a mod or a City fan who follows the blues everywhere doesn't change that one iota.

you are right mate, city/utd/mod or whatever means jack shit, its just an opinion as with the other opinions offered.
no need for any falling out or abuse.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

that absurd that if there was a referendem on it here it would be installed instantly.

I'm not sure that you're correct there. I think it would be a very close vote.

I'm sorry Bill, but your response to Skashion's post reeked of someone who is ignoring the facts in front of him because of his point of view. You are as entitled to your point of view as anyone, but have the courage of your convictions. You clearly believe in the death penalty but to suggest that it acts as any meaningful form of deterrent is absurd, especially based on Skashion's evidence.

it deters the murderer mate, bet your life he wont re offend.

And nor would he if he was never released from prison which is what I would advocate for most murders.

 

[Bill]

I'm not sure that you're correct there. I think it would be a very close vote.

I'm sorry Bill, but your response to Skashion's post reeked of someone who is ignoring the facts in front of him because of his point of view. You are as entitled to your point of view as anyone, but have the courage of your convictions. You clearly believe in the death penalty but to suggest that it acts as any meaningful form of deterrent is absurd, especially based on Skashion's evidence.

it deters the murderer mate, bet your life he wont re offend.

And nor would he if he was never released from prison which is what I would advocate for most murders.

well if life meant life as in they die in jail i think most people would ease their stance, i would, well maybe.

 

[SWP's back]

That statement is so loaded with ignorance it is frightening. No wonder we have been sleepwalking into a loss of our civil liberties with comments like that.

It did make me chuckle but fuckwits abound GDM

is that your attempt at an intelligent response? oh dear

I don't think it deserved one given it's absurdity.<br /><br />-- Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:09 pm --<br /><br />

it certainly works as a detterant in america, not

Atlas we agree. Odd

 

[LittleStan]

I don't see the death penalty as murder , I see it as a punishment.


We'll never agree , i'm happy to agree to disagree.


How do you fellas opposed to the death penalty feel about the nazis executed after the Nuremberg trials?

Or more recently Saddam Hussain?

still fundamentally wrong in mine and many people’s eyes. They committed atrocities that can never be justified but I could still not find justification in killing another person.

Could you actually kill somebody?

Good question, if I was in a jury I know that i could give a guilty verdict which would lead to the death penalty.

Think that question is a lot harder for someone like yourself who's opposed to the death penalty , if you was on the jury and the bloke was bang to rights how would you feel ?

Actually something I had not considered. I always try and put emotion to one side and push towards the law, but if an individual then becomes part of the legal process I am not sure emotions will be kept out.

So, we now have the problem of emotion in a jury which would likely lean towards the lower verdicts.

The mentally ill murderers who will probably get sentenced to hospital.

Crimes of passion are likely to attract a lower sentence.

Then the few that are left will fight for years costing the tax payer a fortune in legal costs.

Regardless of the rights or wrongs, can anybody realistically see a death sentence being given in this country? If not, why even have a parliamentary debate on bringing it back?

 

[Lucky13]

still fundamentally wrong in mine and many people’s eyes. They committed atrocities that can never be justified but I could still not find justification in killing another person.

Could you actually kill somebody?

Good question, if I was in a jury I know that i could give a guilty verdict which would lead to the death penalty.

Think that question is a lot harder for someone like yourself who's opposed to the death penalty , if you was on the jury and the bloke was bang to rights how would you feel ?

Actually something I had not considered. I always try and put emotion to one side and push towards the law, but if an individual then becomes part of the legal process I am not sure emotions will be kept out.

So, we now have the problem of emotion in a jury which would likely lean towards the lower verdicts.

The mentally ill murderers who will probably get sentenced to hospital.

Crimes of passion are likely to attract a lower sentence.

Then the few that are left will fight for years costing the tax payer a fortune in legal costs.

Regardless of the rights or wrongs, can anybody realistically see a death sentence being given in this country? If not, why even have a parliamentary debate on bringing it back?

Online petition.

It will never be brought back , i think we all agree that better sentencing is needed , the bloke who was partly responsible for Baby P's death got let out after just 3yrs , that can't be right.

For what it's worth I think there has been a good debate on this.

 

[mackenzie]

We should have the death penalty for the most heinous crimes , I do not see it as a deterrent ,it clearly isn't in the Countries that have it , it should be as it is called , a penalty.

The fact that Hindley and Brady were on remand when we scrapped the death penalty is a national disgrace.

But who is to define 'most heinous?'
Do we include somebody who robs an elderly person where the victim subsequently dies soon after and a drink driver who knowingly gets behind the wheel pissed up then kills someone. At the end of the day someone's life is still lost as the result of someone else's act and there are families left to grieve. This was part of the undoubted undoing of the death penalty last time. Bentley and Ellis cases caused a furore and rightly so.

Our laws are defined already , it's the sentencing that needs altering.

For instance , the Yorkshire Ripper , the jury ( the guidelines would be life without parole / death penalty )on giving their guilty verdict could recommend the death penalty , the Judge would have to take this into consideration.


The drink driving example is a good one for poor sentencing , if you get in a car drunk and kill someone 25yrs per death seems appropriate.

I agree with you about the families , I cannot imagine what it's like to find out your son / husband / brother is the Yorkshire Ripper , my sympathies would extend to his family , it's not their fault he committed these crimes , but the first consideration should always be for his victims and he should be punished accordingly.

Re your last paragraph Lucky: sorry, I think you misunderstood ( not surprising cos my post was a tad confusing, with hindsight).

I was trying to say that every victim has someone who grieves, and that to say a different victim's death is somehow more deserving of the perpetrator being executed just sits uncomfortably with me.

 

[bluemanc]

Millions of £'s will be spent on setting up & electing mp's to groups that debate this,no different than the independent review bullshit .
Put it to the people,like that will happen.

 

[WNRH]

This is 2011 not 1911 ffs.