Russian invasion of Ukraine

[SWP's back]

A lot of people seem keen to make this point but I wonder how relevant it is. We happily talk about the UK, the Netherlands, and the US without delegitimising their existence as sovereign states.

I think one of the African nations uniquely officially has ‘The’ at the start of its title in a territorial sense (referring to the river). Can’t remember which one, The Gambia, The Congo, maybe.

Many other nations proudly have ‘The’ at the beginning in their official names, although generally in a non-territorial sense. Our own ‘The United Kingdom of…’ and various others: ‘The people’s democratic…’ etc.

According to the Ukrainian historian I was listening to, it matters to them a great deal as the work Ukraine means border/edge so being called The Border/Edge plays into the Russian trope that the country is within Russia on its border/edge.

 

[domalino]

What's taught in schools now isn't necessarily the benchmark for what is factual - more likely demonstrates modern day sensibilities., which as we know, ride roughshod over history.
IMO appeasement left us further off guard and a false sense of security that led to some complacency.
But happy to agree to disagree.


Ps You're wrong.

I don't know why you keep saying "in my opinion" as if anyone should care? Are you an authority on the subject that I'm not aware of?

I'm not saying what is right or wrong or even saying I agree with them, I'm simply telling you the fact that a lot of historians now consider it a vital policy that bought Europe time and changed the outcome of the war, and that your outdated opinion has been proven to be rooted in a politically motivated, factually incorrect book driven by a newspaper owner to attack his political enemies.

You can choose to be in that camp, that's fine, but that's just your (probably) very unqualified opinion, it's certainly not the unquestionable truth.

 

[metalblue]

Ursula von der Leyen has definitely given the best speech in response so far, not holding back at all.

TBF actions not words. Johnson promised a world of shit and pain in the forms of sanctions but we delivered nowt more than a fart in the lift. I expect a coordinated set of announcements later today as it’s not like this has taken anyone by surprise.

 

[BobKowalski]

Moscow Stock Market lost 45% this morning, now suspended. Banks are being emptied as Russians hunt for Euros and dollars and according to journos in Moscow, there seems to be little or no popular enthusiasm for this latest Putin move.

The Czech PM, who is Putin friendly, has branded Putin insane and wants tougher sanctions including cutting Russia out of SWIFT.

We need actions, not just words though. The first round of European sanctions were tougher than people anticipated, so let’s see where we go from here.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

All down the length and breadth of Europe the café vlogging cappuccino drinkers will be trying to sort out a doctors appointment so they can get an exemption certificate from conscription.

Can you imagine trying to enforce conscription these days?

 

[OB1]

All the people that have gone to the streets to protest have been arrested and are still being arrested.

Then they need to get out there in numbers that are too great to be arrested...

Revolution is not painless.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Then they need to get out there in numbers that are too great to be arrested...

Revolution is not painless.

Tell that to the 100k demo in Chicago who protested again the Vietnam War.

Police baton charged the lot of 'em!

 

[SPIDERBOY]

Tell that to the 100k demo in Chicago who protested again the Vietnam War.

Police baton charged the lot of 'em!

Putin would of fired missiles at them.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Moscow Stock Market lost 45% this morning, now suspended. Banks are being emptied as Russians hunt for Euros and dollars and according to journos in Moscow, there seems to be little or no popular enthusiasm for this latest Putin move.

The Czech PM, who is Putin friendly, has branded Putin insane and wants tougher sanctions including cutting Russia out of SWIFT.

We need actions, not just words though. The first round of European sanctions were tougher than people anticipated, so let’s see where we go from here.

Got to be hard lined. Russia’s economy is not varied, and can quickly and easily have a foot put on its neck.

I also think it’s time for the West to expel Russians from their countries, sons and daughters of oligarchs at our schools and unis, Russian businesses who launder money through British business, close down certain investments even if it means losing money.

If we aren’t going to actively help Ukraine, we need to be hard on Russia in other ways to force them to back away.

 

[domalino]

Moscow Stock Market lost 45% this morning, now suspended. Banks are being emptied as Russians hunt for Euros and dollars and according to journos in Moscow, there seems to be little or no popular enthusiasm for this latest Putin move.

The Czech PM, who is Putin friendly, has branded Putin insane and wants tougher sanctions including cutting Russia out of SWIFT.

We need actions, not just words though. The first round of European sanctions were tougher than people anticipated, so let’s see where we go from here.

Cutting Russia out of SWIFT might be quite difficult as according to BBC news earlier companies in France, Germany and the US are all owed over $25Billion each* by Russian organisations and if you cut them off from SWIFT that money's not coming back.