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Russian invasion of Ukraine
- Thread starter feedmpenzaandhewillscore
- Start date
grunge
Well-Known Member
Really strange the concerted effort to put a negative spin on Ukrainian advances on twitter which ends up in mainstream news. Cluster munitions are really fucking up the ruskies, Ukraine aren't too far from Tokmak now. If they make it down to Melitopol then russia have to fall back to Crimea and a whole new front line opens towards Mauripol.
To be honest im feeling quite pessimistic about Ukraines chances of taking Tokmak by winter at this point.
it would allow for far better attrition over winter but it would be seen as a fail by the media in the west for sure.
Ghandi's Flip Flops
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- 14 Aug 2009
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Media wise I agree, but can sorta see parallels between what's gonna happen and WW2 Finnish war. The Ukrainians as a well trained, well supplied, motivated and mobile army against a static, ill equipped, poorly supplied and low morale Russian one. This time though the Russians won't be able to deploy the numbers to cover their losses.To be honest im feeling quite pessimistic about Ukraines chances of taking Tokmak by winter at this point.
it would allow for far better attrition over winter but it would be seen as a fail by the media in the west for sure.
BlueAnorak
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- 31 Oct 2010
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- 27,977
You mean like today's nugget:I miss Darth Putin and his excellent concise explanations
Even if NATO sent it's own troops in it couldn't be done much quicker than it is. Unfortunately western countries procrastinated over sending Ukraine heavy weapons for far too long, and when commitments were made, it was done with too much fanfare. The Russians knew exactly what was comming and the time it took to fully train and equipe the UA gave the orcs all the opportunity they needed to dig in and prepare their defenses. That said, Russia depends very heavily on its volume of artillary (perhaps too much) and it's getting hammered by Ukraine (possibly they've lost almost a third), Russian logistics are also suffering which means the artillary guns they've still got are struggling for ammo.We the west need to up the game and finish this now. Send the UA more stuff they can use instantly and get them to within range of the coast and supply lines quicker. At that point Putin and his cronies may get over thrown. Air defence systems, HIMARS tanks and proper armed drones. Said it before but planes would be a game changer. This is a war of attrition and playing into the Russians hands as they treat men as expendable. A couple of villages every two weeks is painful progress. The UA deserves better support from the west.
grunge
Well-Known Member
Even if NATO sent it's own troops in it couldn't be done much quicker than it is. Unfortunately western countries procrastinated over sending Ukraine heavy weapons for far too long, and when commitments were made, it was done with too much fanfare. The Russians knew exactly what was comming and the time it took to fully train and equipe the UA gave the orcs all the opportunity they needed to dig in and prepare their defenses. That said, Russia depends very heavily on its volume of artillary (perhaps too much) and it's getting hammered by Ukraine (possibly they've lost almost a third), Russian logistics are also suffering which means the artillary guns they've still got are struggling for ammo.
If Nato went in there would be air superiority in less than a week allowing for a far easier track though the defences. the NATO hardware given so far is short range and C grade compared to whats there.
with air superiority that Artillary would get trashed 5x as fast in my opinion even if you dont consider carpet bombing woodland where they are.
Last edited:
feedmpenzaandhewillscore
Well-Known Member
If Nato went in there would be air superiority in less than a week allowing for a far easier track though the defences. the NATO hardware given so far is short range and C grade compared to whats there.
with air superiority that Artillary would get trashed 5x as fast in my opinion even if you dont consider carpet bombing woodland where they are.
NATO could weigh in with far superior equipment than what Russia has and quickly put them on the back foot. The dangerous thing is Russia feeling threatened by a far superior force in NATO for the first time in this conflict, they would then start to rattle out the nuclear rhetoric. No one in Washington, Kyiv and Moscow wants that situation.
I'm not that convinced, you've still got to get through mine fields, you've still got to clear trenches, that has to be done with dis-mounted infantry which is dangerous and takes time. Although modern western aircraft has a lot of advantages and if Ukraine had some it would make a big difference, Russia still has effective AA defences and air power isn't everything. Part of the problem with western media is there is an assumption that western equipment is all conquering and invincble, well it's mostly good but it's not that good, also there is an erroneous tendancy to underestimate Russian capability and portray their generals as being idiots. Ukraine is doing extreamly well in the circumstances against a powerfull well armed opponent, it's a very large theater of operations and even if they had air supremacy I doubt they could go much quicker, also Russia still has a LOT of artillary.If Nato went in there would be air superiority in less than a week allowing for a far easier track though the defences. the NATO hardware given so far is short range and C grade compared to whats there.
with air superiority that Artillary would get trashed 5x as fast in my opinion even if you dont consider carpet bombing woodland where they are.
Tokmak will be seriously difficult to take,it will slow down the closer they get.Really strange the concerted effort to put a negative spin on Ukrainian advances on twitter which ends up in mainstream news. Cluster munitions are really fucking up the ruskies, Ukraine aren't too far from Tokmak now. If they make it down to Melitopol then russia have to fall back to Crimea and a whole new front line opens towards Mauripol.
Slava Ukraini.