Russian invasion of Ukraine

The US backs NATO purely out of self-interest. As much as I detest the actions of Russia and laugh at their propaganda around Nazis in Ukraine, biological weapon mosquitos and the like, some of the points about US hegemony are right on the nose and this fact has been clearly evident for a long time.

Intervention in WW2 was delayed repeatedly and done on terms to create the biggest advantage possible to the US in establishing US hegemony. It's interesting how countries such as Israel are gifted the resources they ask for, yet countries that were literally fighting for survival were given crippling repayment terms in exchange for assistance. The difference was that those countries were competitive with the US at the time and crippling them economically was beneficial to the US.

The USSR prevailing in Europe would have been catastrophic for US hegemony and so the US did what it had to do, setting up infrastructure to prevent it from happening. The USSR at the time couldn't have been held back with cast-off weapons and so this wasn't the approach. European states, still suffering from WW2, became beholden to the US as they couldn't afford to defend themselves at the time, much of it due to the onerous costs arising from US intervention in WW2.

Now look at the situation in Ukraine, the weapons exist to ensure Ukraine wins but the cast-offs are being used because Russia is comparatively weak when compared to the USSR in the day. It's more advantageous to the US that Ukraine doesn't win quickly because more of Russia's military strength can be sapped this way, at the expense of the Ukrainian people, so cast-offs are sent that are good enough to hold the line but not good enough to go on the attack. As soon as Ukraine start to make some progress militarily the resources from the US dry up and the almost stalemate situation returns.

So when has NATO Article 5 been activated? Once, in defence of the world's largest military against a rag-tag militia. The act they committed, while deplorable, pales into insignificance compared to the acts being committed based on US funding in Palestine and compared to the acts being committed based on the lack of US funding in Ukraine. Whilst responding to the attack was so urgent that it required the invocation of Article 5, they still had time to go into Iraq for some oil first, because you always have to be looking after that self-interest.

The US is not a white knight coming to the rescue, any assistance should be viewed as a trojan horse for US self-interest and interference. We need to be able to properly stand on our own feet and stop depending on US resources in Europe for defence. Just because it is there doesn't mean it will always be there, and being able to make use of those resources when you need to generally comes at a terrible price.

No doubt, Russia, China and others are more malign influences in the world, but is being less malign than Russia the benchmark for who you get into bed with now?
Utter bollocks
 
Sadly that is true Ukraine needs those weapons we didn’t just promise to protect Israel we promised to protect Ukraine if they gave up their Nuclear weapons.

Incidentally it was Thatcher that paid the final instalment of money we owed the US for WW 2 and we have our own Nuclear submarine the US didn’t provide us with those as a deterrent, we built it I think Faslane on the Clyde
The trident boats run out of Faslane, but we’re built in Barrow in Furness.

Without the US furnished equipment, we don’t have a nuclear deterrent
 
What technology are you alluding to and when was the last warhead test?
Obviously the nuclear testing isn't really done anymore but our nuclear tests have generally been successful since our first nuclear detonation. The failures have been Trident missiles from the shared pool where the US give us missiles at "random" from the pool which we'd then attach our warhead to.

Or by "technology", were you meaning my first sentence? If so, I was referring to British research scientists involved in the Manhattan project, only for the US to hold the technology developed for itself.
 
Don’t let your emotions get in the way of public writing, especially when it does you no justice.

I’m neither a cap wearing Trumper (funny stuff, but it only highlights your cluelessness on your Trumper catch all) nor an assertor of America as “bigger and better.” Alas, when it comes to NATO, I gave the facts and you appear to question them as “narrative bullshit,” which is almost definitive Trumper behavior!

How’s that cap fitting? Red looks good on you!


Never claimed to be, but for comparative purposes, I fancy my chances in this exchange.


I enjoy reading all perspectives, but reserve the right to point out fallacy and ignorance as they crop up. You’re keeping me busy today!

“My country’s isolationism” doesn’t exist, except in the mind of someone parroting Trumpspeak and ignoring the reality of the largest Navy and Air Force in the world to protect a landmass that hasn’t been attacked in earnest for centuries. Whats that about?!

Seeing as you brought it up, perhaps you could regale us with the “plenty of examples of (isolationism) over the years.” While you’re at it, tell me all the good stuff Europe has done in this arena, as they’ve been dragged, kicking and screaming, to throw a few actual boots on the ground at world events…or are we supposed kow tow to Europe forever for invoking Article 5 after 9/11? How’s that working out domestically in the UK these days?
It's ignore for you!
Ps, guess what, you wasted more time, as I didn't even read past your first paragraph.
 
Obviously the nuclear testing isn't really done anymore but our nuclear tests have generally been successful since our first nuclear detonation. The failures have been Trident missiles from the shared pool where the US give us missiles at "random" from the pool which we'd then attach our warhead to.

Or by "technology", were you meaning my first sentence? If so, I was referring to British research scientists involved in the Manhattan project, only for the US to hold the technology developed for itself.
DASO firings overall will show positive outcomes. You’re correct about us having mingled assets.
 
Tax is already high so nobody is going to vote for higher taxes. People are also struggling with the cost of living so they are not going to vote for a reduction in benefits. Government debt has spiralled because of the pandemic and cost of energy so the Country can ill afford a war. People are selfish and will see it as a eastern European war.
So I don't think we will increase spending to appropriate levels until it is too late , just like world war two
Those tax increases should be aimed at those who can afford it, including taxes on assets.
 
What was the other occasion Article 5 was invoked?
That's not what I was saying was bollox - the rest of it pretty much was.
Without the US, Europe would be in the shit. They haven't paid the bare minimum for collective defence for years.
The UK provided the bare minimum since 2010 anf the Tory's have pissed their reputation for supporting defence out of the window from 2010 by hollowing out the armed forces.
 
Last edited:

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.