Russian invasion of Ukraine

Chippy_boy said:
Not meaning to single you out, but replying with a more general point...

I understand everyone wants to see the weedy kid standing up to the school bully and giving him a bloody nose. Of course we want to see Putin turning around and pulling out.

But realistically, this is just not going to happen. Admirable - hugely admirable and courageous though the Ukrainian resistance may be - I honestly think it's futile. The longer it goes on, the more lives are lost, injuries sustained, buildings destroyed.

I am afraid I think there can be only one outcome here (sadly). No matter how well intentioned, I think the west's efforts to prop up the Ukrainian defence are ultimately just making it worse.
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Unfortunately that is one of the realities, if not the most seemingly likely one.
 
We have sarted a financial war. Depends how desperate they get. Don't think Putins generals or oligarchs are happy with their boss. Only issue is he doesn't use door handles.
 
KnaresboroughBlue said:
They were going to get invaded regardless of any NATO application. Their only way to avoid that would have been to elect a pro-Putin puppet.
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Maybe they were. Maybe not. We won't know now.

Personally, I think a guarantee of no NATO membership for 10 years (carrot) and well articulated tangible threat of hard sanctions and how it would be much worse for Putin personally (stick) would have worked.
 
If Putin does intend to reestablish the USSR then we may regret not attacking now.

It’s speculation on my part but if we are indeed in WW3, trying to be reasonable and placing sanctions is falling short. Hopefully the west have made the correct decisions and avoided all out conflict.

Putins aim is not yet clear. How many people would be ok with Russia taking Ukraine if it stopped a world war?
 
Gremlin said:
It depends what you are trying to achieve. Iraq and Afghanistan were initially successful (i.e. the regimes in power were dislodged) but it was what happened after that, because there wasn't a clear plan, that defined the final legacy. Even if Russia is initially successful at dislodging the Ukrainian government (which is by no means certain at this stage) they will have great difficulty dictating events after that.
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That's my take. They've created something much bigger to handle than Afghanistan, AND they're going to be poorer for it with all the sanctions and bad will there is now towards them

Putin has fucked up imo, which makes it more dangerous maybe.
 
domalino said:
Bluesteel, you need to look up Alexander Dugin and his political theories because Putin is a known believer in them and he spelled that out in his speeches before.

Putin does not believe Ukraine or Belarus are real countries, he thinks they are part of Russia that was opportunistically cut off the motherland in the fall of the USSR and that the future of the Russian state depends on them being reunified.

It has nothing to do with NATO.

In fact, you may have heard of this article that was accidentally published on Russian state news website that was meant to be kept back until the war was won.



This thread has the full translation but I’ve quote tweeted the two relevant ones. It’s not about NATO and it never has been.



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I’ll read through all that later, there’s a lot of propaganda on both sides at the minute.
 
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