Admirable sentinent, but not the first time it has been applied. That has generally been the way of it, and is there to stop any old conflict from becoming a worldwide one. This one just happens to be on a big scale and one with further reaching consequences.
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Russian invasion of Ukraine
- Thread starter feedmpenzaandhewillscore
- Start date
Admirable sentinent, but not the first time it has been applied. That has generally been the way of it, and is there to stop any old conflict from becoming a worldwide one. This one just happens to be on a big scale and one with further reaching consequences.
GaudinoMotors
Well-Known Member
Who'd be a politician. That was quite emotional.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
My take is that its complex. It's clearly not ALL about NATO membership, because as others have pointed out, he has NATO members on his border already. But equally the NATO piece should not be dismissed. Putin himself has said that he feared that were Ukraine to join NATO and subsequently try to take back Crimea, then he would not be able to protect Crimea without starting WW3. A strangely rational argument for a supposed madman.Tbh that's my take on it too. The Russians don't want nato on their doorstep. I don't think it's fair to say it was caused by the West or by America because the Ukrainian people democratically elected to be closer to Europe than Russia. Putin himself said (in his propaganda piece on Ukraine a couple of years ago) the people of Ukraine must decide themselves if they want to continue the historic kinship between Russia and Ukraine.
I think an analogy is Russia wanting nukes next door to America, in Cuba. It doesn't play well with the superpowers. (Though Cuba wasn't a democracy and didn't really choose to be closer to Russia)
I think Germany had accepted that world view, ie that Russia wouldn't want / allow Ukraine to be part of nato and for Russia to have the enemies nukes on their doorstep. In effect it might cause a war itself.
So the west have pushed/brought/encouraged democracy too close to Russia (in Russian eyes) and so Russia have invaded them.
So what do you think?
But I am sure @domalino is also right about Putin's genuine belief that Ukraine "belongs" in Russia. It's not a coincidence that he invaded Ukraine and not e.g. Finland.
Churchlawtonblue
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They tried Finland before, it didn't work out well.My take is that its complex. It's clearly not ALL about NATO membership, because as others have pointed out, he has NATO members on his border already. But equally the NATO piece should not be dismissed. Putin himself has said that he feared that were Ukraine to join NATO and subsequently try to take back Crimea, then he would not be able to protect Crimea without starting WW3. A strangely rational argument for a supposed madman.
But I am sure @domalino is also right about Putin's genuine belief that Ukraine "belongs" in Russia. It's not a coincidence that he invaded Ukraine and not e.g. Finland.
The Russians don't want nato on their doorstep.
This was not an issue from 1949-2022 so why is it an issue now?
bluejon
Well-Known Member
It has been an issue, a lot of people just weren't aware of it in the west.This was not an issue from 1949-2022 so why is it an issue now?
Sir peace frog
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too many people are believing the tweets, we are seeing the ukrainian side of things, they will be showing the heroics, the facts are the russian invading forces out number them and have better fire power, forget the 40 million people taking up arms its not happening on that scale, there will be some , but civilians with guns v trained soldiers don't stand a chance , as soon as russia get air control this war wont last 2 more days , ukraine are fucked , its fucking horrendous ,and i hope we keep these sanctions going until russia are back in the dark age and won't be able to do this ever again.I don't think there's any thankfully about it. And BTW, I was not suggesting we should not have supported Ukraine and even that we should stop now. I am merely countering some of the gung-ho attitudes on here with a sense of realism.
It has been an issue, a lot of people just weren't aware of it in the west.
It wasn't a big enough issue to invade someone.
Stop regurgitating Putin's bullshit excuses for war.
bluejon
Well-Known Member
Eh? Have a word with yourself. I said it's been known for a while Putin wasn't happy with NATO's expansion, I didn't say it justifies it in any way shape or form. The man is a murdering ****.It wasn't a big enough issue to invade someone.
Stop regurgitating Putin's bullshit excuses for war.