Says it all really similar in age but light years between them in approach. Bielsa is prepared to take risks and create. The other is risk averse and sets up teams to defend and destroy. Awful manager.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Sam Allardyce: Epitome of why English football has lagged behind
- Thread starter Neville Kneville
- Start date
Apologies absolutely your right. It has been about results in a lot of his situations. What I can't stomach is Sam judging the effectiveness of a style of play he has never ever attempted to implement in his own footballing teams. Further when a fair few of his teams have taken a good hiding off the back off possession based play., 5 weeks arsenal's manager has had to put that team together and the dickhead is digging him out on national TV. You would expect it from fans but from an aesthetically shit but experienced manager like him it was bang out of order. Apologies again thoughI don't think its' anything to do with intelligence or courage. Sam has mainly been brought in to struggling clubs, to get them results and
get them out of the mire. He has delivered many times over. It's about results and results only in his situations.
aguerrrroooooooooooo
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 16 Feb 2016
- Messages
- 11,040
Nail on the head. It's almost like he forgets Everton away was one of our easiest games last seasonApologies absolutely your right. It has been about results in a lot of his situations. What I can't stomach is Sam judging the effectiveness of a style of play he has never ever attempted to implement in his own footballing teams. Further when a fair few of his teams have taken a good hiding off the back off possession based play., 5 weeks arsenal's manager has had to put that team together and the dickhead is digging him out on national TV. You would expect it from fans but from an aesthetically shit but experienced manager like him it was bang out of order. Apologies again though
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Not many managers can pick up a demoralised squad and turn them around - Big Sam did just that. Football fans in the main are moaning sheep so I’m sure the criticism didn’t bother him too much
That's not strictly true is it ?
There are lierally 100s who have done exactly that, probably 1000s around the world.
If we look at the managers who have that, or 'getting a team promoted' as their main attribute they are often a similar ilk.
Their method is to dumb down the football to try & avoid mistakes.
SpiritofBurnden
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 28 Mar 2010
- Messages
- 1,993
There are lierally 100s who have done exactly that, probably 1000s around the world.
If we look at the managers who have that, or 'getting a team promoted' as their main attribute they are often a similar ilk.
Their method is to dumb down the football to try & avoid mistakes.
He's kept Bolton, Blackburn, West Ham, Sunderland, Crystal Palace and Everton up from difficult positions.
He left Bolton in a UEFA Cup position, Everton in 8th and West Ham in the top half.
He also got two of those teams promoted.
Name someone who has had as much success at keeping teams in the Premier League as Sam Allardyce, on the sort of budgets he's working with.
Dipsis_LTU_MC
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 14 Jun 2013
- Messages
- 1,182
It’s the British mentality. Britain as a nation is very proud of their traditions and heritage. Since the football has been invented by you there was always a consensus among British that football should be played the British way because it’s the only proper way. Strength, power and pace are the common traits that British always consider as a core of how to play football. That’s why for old coaches, the media and most of the fans it’s really hard to alter their thinking towards how the football should be played. This especially goes to so called dinosaurs of football (i.e. Allardyce, Hodgson, Warnock, etc.). They started their coaching careers in the era where muddy pitches, oversized kits, long balls and nasty tackles were something to be admired. That’s how their footballing attitude has shaped.
I read a book written by Jonathan Wilson: “Inverting the pyramid – the history of football tactics”. It clearly outlines how much British football was reluctant to change even though the whole Europe was playing football in a modern way. They valued the British style of play so much that changing it would mean losing your true identity. That’s what in my eyes is still present. British football doesn’t want to lose its identity at least on an international scale.
It’s like telling Brazilians to cut out every street football element from their game and play a rigid 4-4-2 with no room for self-expression. You can clearly see that this English mentality is still present when you look at the young players produced by academies. Only a few “Spanish type” attacking or central midfielders break through into the first team from time to time. Majority of the players are still coached using the old methods to produce a stereotypical English player – physically strong, powerful with good pace, average on the ball. But what all these players are missing is that Spanish element – fantastic vision to pick out a pass, being able to execute different types of passes, being incredibly good on the ball, etc. Of course, there is a genetic element in this but I deeply believe that if young English players were coached right, you would see a lot more of the likes of Phil Foden or young Wilshere. Is it a coincidence that the most “Spanish like” players in Foden and Wilshere came from Arsenal’s and City’s academies? It’s not a coincidence at all. Those two are the prime examples of how these academies develop their young prospects. In my opinion, central midfield is an area on the pitch which epitomises the brand of football a team plays. 9 out of 10 young English players who come through the ranks are pacey wingers or full-backs. These are positions that rely on old, stereotypical English values – pace and power. The only way for England to get better is to retransform all academies (apart from City and Arsenal), introduce modern coaching philosophy at a grass-roots level, teach young coaches in a modern way and wait until all those old-school dinosaurs end their coaching careers.
I read a book written by Jonathan Wilson: “Inverting the pyramid – the history of football tactics”. It clearly outlines how much British football was reluctant to change even though the whole Europe was playing football in a modern way. They valued the British style of play so much that changing it would mean losing your true identity. That’s what in my eyes is still present. British football doesn’t want to lose its identity at least on an international scale.
It’s like telling Brazilians to cut out every street football element from their game and play a rigid 4-4-2 with no room for self-expression. You can clearly see that this English mentality is still present when you look at the young players produced by academies. Only a few “Spanish type” attacking or central midfielders break through into the first team from time to time. Majority of the players are still coached using the old methods to produce a stereotypical English player – physically strong, powerful with good pace, average on the ball. But what all these players are missing is that Spanish element – fantastic vision to pick out a pass, being able to execute different types of passes, being incredibly good on the ball, etc. Of course, there is a genetic element in this but I deeply believe that if young English players were coached right, you would see a lot more of the likes of Phil Foden or young Wilshere. Is it a coincidence that the most “Spanish like” players in Foden and Wilshere came from Arsenal’s and City’s academies? It’s not a coincidence at all. Those two are the prime examples of how these academies develop their young prospects. In my opinion, central midfield is an area on the pitch which epitomises the brand of football a team plays. 9 out of 10 young English players who come through the ranks are pacey wingers or full-backs. These are positions that rely on old, stereotypical English values – pace and power. The only way for England to get better is to retransform all academies (apart from City and Arsenal), introduce modern coaching philosophy at a grass-roots level, teach young coaches in a modern way and wait until all those old-school dinosaurs end their coaching careers.
aguerrrroooooooooooo
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 16 Feb 2016
- Messages
- 11,040
Think it also shows how limited he is as a coach. He is unable to change or adapt to a more progressive brand of football, once he has secured safety.He's kept Bolton, Blackburn, West Ham, Sunderland, Crystal Palace and Everton up from difficult positions.
He left Bolton in a UEFA Cup position, Everton in 8th and West Ham in the top half.
He also got two of those teams promoted.
Name someone who has had as much success at keeping teams in the Premier League as Sam Allardyce, on the sort of budgets he's working with.
Probably why he hasn't stayed at many clubs for a long time
SpiritofBurnden
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 28 Mar 2010
- Messages
- 1,993
Think it also shows how limited he is as a coach. He is unable to change or adapt to a more progressive brand of football, once he has secured safety. Probably why he hasn't stayed at many clubs for a long time
Safety?
Everton finished 8th, one place off a Europa League position!
How far do you see them progressing beyond that?
aguerrrroooooooooooo
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 16 Feb 2016
- Messages
- 11,040
Safety?
Everton finished 8th, one place off a Europa League position!
How far do you see them progressing beyond that?
He was the same distance to 7th as he was to 12th, the midtable of the league last year was appalling.
He would never have switched to a brand that would've been capable of overthrowing any of the top 6, so yes you're quite right they wouldn't have gone much further.
I could easily see Marco Silva playing some nice football this year without dropping much lower than what big Sam did. They'll probably get more points than he did last season