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Saurez [FA release investigation findings]
- Thread starter Impeccable One
- Start date
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Anonymous
Guest
Re: Suarez (merged)
I can only speak for myself, but I'm not going to buy into the notion that just because the FA have decided that Suarez is guilty that that equates to him being a racist. I think the FA and Evra himself both acknowledged that they don't believe Suarez to be a racist.
The semantic argument about the word he used and the context within which he used it is hazy at best because - well none of us were there - and not a single player or match official heard anything. Which really does mean it's Suarez's word against Evra's. Again, I'm not going to condemn Suarez simply on Evra's say so.
Liverpool have handled the entire situation appallingly and should really sack whoever's been advising them. Shit gets said on a football pitches all over the world. Maybe if someone had had a quiet word with Suarez and told him to ring Evra and apologize for causing offence the whole thing could and probably would have gone away. Instead they're in a situation where they'll probably lose their best player for quite a few games, and the player himself is going to be vilified so much that he'll probably look for a transfer out of England at the next decent opportunity.
Having said all that there's clearly a few on here who harbour some pent up racist frustration. But they're the same whether the discussion is about Suarez, the EDL, or religion. They'll find a way to moan about "PC gone mad".
stony said:jay_mcfc said:RAWK is always full of it but in here you would think people would realise the difference between racist abuse and other abuse.
I don't see why here should be any different to any other walk of life. There are always people who see things differently. The fact that they are seemingly blind to racism tells it's own story and that's as much as I'll say on it.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm not going to buy into the notion that just because the FA have decided that Suarez is guilty that that equates to him being a racist. I think the FA and Evra himself both acknowledged that they don't believe Suarez to be a racist.
The semantic argument about the word he used and the context within which he used it is hazy at best because - well none of us were there - and not a single player or match official heard anything. Which really does mean it's Suarez's word against Evra's. Again, I'm not going to condemn Suarez simply on Evra's say so.
Liverpool have handled the entire situation appallingly and should really sack whoever's been advising them. Shit gets said on a football pitches all over the world. Maybe if someone had had a quiet word with Suarez and told him to ring Evra and apologize for causing offence the whole thing could and probably would have gone away. Instead they're in a situation where they'll probably lose their best player for quite a few games, and the player himself is going to be vilified so much that he'll probably look for a transfer out of England at the next decent opportunity.
Having said all that there's clearly a few on here who harbour some pent up racist frustration. But they're the same whether the discussion is about Suarez, the EDL, or religion. They'll find a way to moan about "PC gone mad".
Fame Monster
Well-Known Member
Re: Suarez (merged)
On the Luis Suarez topic - What he said was obviously offensive and nothing to do with football. He should be punished. I'm glad he'll miss some games against us, though if it were another time of the season where we could rely on players being fully fit, I'd want our best eleven to beat their best eleven.
On the justice of dealing with racist comments more severely than comments that don't include race - I think the difference in treatment comes from the difference in consequence. If you call someone a 'black ****' instead of 'fat ****' or 'goofy ****', I think that, in general, a black person - whether it was aimed at them or not - is likely to be insulted. That's different from the consequences of calling someone a 'fat ****'. I'm not sure that most fat people take a comment like that to be personal. And I think that has a lot to do with people identifying themselves with their race over any other feature of their body. As I say, though, that's just my opinion. I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of any fat, black guys to see if it holds water.
On the Luis Suarez topic - What he said was obviously offensive and nothing to do with football. He should be punished. I'm glad he'll miss some games against us, though if it were another time of the season where we could rely on players being fully fit, I'd want our best eleven to beat their best eleven.
On the justice of dealing with racist comments more severely than comments that don't include race - I think the difference in treatment comes from the difference in consequence. If you call someone a 'black ****' instead of 'fat ****' or 'goofy ****', I think that, in general, a black person - whether it was aimed at them or not - is likely to be insulted. That's different from the consequences of calling someone a 'fat ****'. I'm not sure that most fat people take a comment like that to be personal. And I think that has a lot to do with people identifying themselves with their race over any other feature of their body. As I say, though, that's just my opinion. I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of any fat, black guys to see if it holds water.
jay_mcfc
Well-Known Member
Re: Suarez (merged)
Stony nor I are talking about Suarez
BillyShears said:I can only speak for myself, but I'm not going to buy into the notion that just because the FA have decided that Suarez is guilty that that equates to him being a racist. I think the FA and Evra himself both acknowledged that they don't believe Suarez to be a racist.
The semantic argument about the word he used and the context within which he used it is hazy at best because - well none of us were there - and not a single player or match official heard anything. Which really does mean it's Suarez's word against Evra's. Again, I'm not going to condemn Suarez simply on Evra's say so.
Liverpool have handled the entire situation appallingly and should really sack whoever's been advising them. Shit gets said on a football pitches all over the world. Maybe if someone had had a quiet word with Suarez and told him to ring Evra and apologize for causing offence the whole thing could and probably would have gone away. Instead they're in a situation where they'll probably lose their best player for quite a few games, and the player himself is going to be vilified so much that he'll probably look for a transfer out of England at the next decent opportunity.
Having said all that there's clearly a few on here who harbour some pent up racist frustration. But they're the same whether the discussion is about Suarez, the EDL, or religion. They'll find a way to moan about "PC gone mad".
Stony nor I are talking about Suarez
MSP
Well-Known Member
Re: Suarez (merged)
yep, thanks
<a class="postlink" href="http://blog.cps.gov.uk/2011/12/cps-decision-on-john-terry-case.html#tp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://blog.cps.gov.uk/2011/12/cps-deci ... se.html#tp</a>
pudge said:Just released a statement saying he will be prosecutedMSP said:pudge said:And now JT is in trouble
have police said it's word, it's supposed to happen today
yep, thanks
<a class="postlink" href="http://blog.cps.gov.uk/2011/12/cps-decision-on-john-terry-case.html#tp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://blog.cps.gov.uk/2011/12/cps-deci ... se.html#tp</a>
Alison Saunders, Chief Crown Prosecutor for London said:
“I have today advised the Metropolitan Police Service that John Terry should be prosecuted for a racially aggravated public order offence following comments allegedly made during a Premier League football match between Queen’s Park Rangers and Chelsea on 23 October 2011.
“The decision was taken in accordance with the Code for Crown Prosecutors and after careful consideration of all the evidence, I am satisfied there is sufficient evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction and it is in the public interest to prosecute this case.
“Mr Terry will appear before West London Magistrates’ Court on 1 February 2012.
“He is now summonsed with a criminal offence and has the right to a fair trial. It is extremely important that nothing should be reported which could prejudice his trial.”
BACKGROUND INFORMATION
The details of the charge are:
On 23rd October 2011 at Loftus Road Stadium, London W12 you used threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress which was racially aggravated in accordance with section 28 of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998. Contrary to section 31 (1) (c) of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998
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Anonymous
Guest
Re: Suarez (merged)
Yes but since I defended Suarez last night in this thread and Stony implied that anyone defending him is themselves a racist, I thought I'd put my point across again in a sober fashion.
jay_mcfc said:BillyShears said:I can only speak for myself, but I'm not going to buy into the notion that just because the FA have decided that Suarez is guilty that that equates to him being a racist. I think the FA and Evra himself both acknowledged that they don't believe Suarez to be a racist.
The semantic argument about the word he used and the context within which he used it is hazy at best because - well none of us were there - and not a single player or match official heard anything. Which really does mean it's Suarez's word against Evra's. Again, I'm not going to condemn Suarez simply on Evra's say so.
Liverpool have handled the entire situation appallingly and should really sack whoever's been advising them. Shit gets said on a football pitches all over the world. Maybe if someone had had a quiet word with Suarez and told him to ring Evra and apologize for causing offence the whole thing could and probably would have gone away. Instead they're in a situation where they'll probably lose their best player for quite a few games, and the player himself is going to be vilified so much that he'll probably look for a transfer out of England at the next decent opportunity.
Having said all that there's clearly a few on here who harbour some pent up racist frustration. But they're the same whether the discussion is about Suarez, the EDL, or religion. They'll find a way to moan about "PC gone mad".
Stony nor I are talking about Suarez
Yes but since I defended Suarez last night in this thread and Stony implied that anyone defending him is themselves a racist, I thought I'd put my point across again in a sober fashion.
TCIB
Well-Known Member
Re: Suarez (merged)
Yeah we want a racist banned so we are fustrated racists.
A panel took a lot of time over this, basically you saying the people on the panel are no good at distinguishing the context of words said.
You do NOT have any idea what the exact evidence was so for a kick off your assuming a hell of a lot.
BillyShears said:stony said:jay_mcfc said:RAWK is always full of it but in here you would think people would realise the difference between racist abuse and other abuse.
I don't see why here should be any different to any other walk of life. There are always people who see things differently. The fact that they are seemingly blind to racism tells it's own story and that's as much as I'll say on it.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm not going to buy into the notion that just because the FA have decided that Suarez is guilty that that equates to him being a racist. I think the FA and Evra himself both acknowledged that they don't believe Suarez to be a racist.
The semantic argument about the word he used and the context within which he used it is hazy at best because - well none of us were there - and not a single player or match official heard anything. Which really does mean it's Suarez's word against Evra's. Again, I'm not going to condemn Suarez simply on Evra's say so.
Liverpool have handled the entire situation appallingly and should really sack whoever's been advising them. Shit gets said on a football pitches all over the world. Maybe if someone had had a quiet word with Suarez and told him to ring Evra and apologize for causing offence the whole thing could and probably would have gone away. Instead they're in a situation where they'll probably lose their best player for quite a few games, and the player himself is going to be vilified so much that he'll probably look for a transfer out of England at the next decent opportunity.
Having said all that there's clearly a few on here who harbour some pent up racist frustration. But they're the same whether the discussion is about Suarez, the EDL, or religion. They'll find a way to moan about "PC gone mad".
Yeah we want a racist banned so we are fustrated racists.
A panel took a lot of time over this, basically you saying the people on the panel are no good at distinguishing the context of words said.
You do NOT have any idea what the exact evidence was so for a kick off your assuming a hell of a lot.
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Anonymous
Guest
Re: Suarez (merged)
You've got hold of the wrong end of the stick there mate. I'm talking about those people who are saying that IF he did use a racist word there's nothing wrong with it and we live in a "PC world gone mad". Not those who think he should be charged/banned.
It'll be clearer when the judgement is published - but my understanding is that nobody could corroborate Evra's allegations. No match official and no player ie. so it comes down to Suarez's own admission from the very beginning that he used a term which he did not consider to be racist. The panel obviously disagreed with him on the basis I imagine that in Britain, the word could only ever be seen as racist.
Nobody here does. The difference is that I'm not rushing to judgement because Suarez is a "buck toothed **** with previous".
TCIB said:Yeah we want a racist banned so we are fustrated racists.
You've got hold of the wrong end of the stick there mate. I'm talking about those people who are saying that IF he did use a racist word there's nothing wrong with it and we live in a "PC world gone mad". Not those who think he should be charged/banned.
A panel took a lot of time over this, basically you saying the people on the panel are no good at distinguishing the context of words said.
It'll be clearer when the judgement is published - but my understanding is that nobody could corroborate Evra's allegations. No match official and no player ie. so it comes down to Suarez's own admission from the very beginning that he used a term which he did not consider to be racist. The panel obviously disagreed with him on the basis I imagine that in Britain, the word could only ever be seen as racist.
You do NOT have any idea what the exact evidence was so for a kick off your assuming a hell of a lot.
Nobody here does. The difference is that I'm not rushing to judgement because Suarez is a "buck toothed **** with previous".
bluemonkey71
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 26 Jan 2009
- Messages
- 7,118
Re: Suarez (merged)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy7OdvPvFyU[/youtube]
moomba said:JT is fucked.
Couldnt happen to a nicer twat.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy7OdvPvFyU[/youtube]