I'm sure Jamie Mackie got an 8 game ban for racism before the campaign started.Bigga said:A point I wanted to make, Pudge, but couldn't be bothered!
However, for the 'astonished' and 'confused' individuals that are struggling with the length of the ban, you have to understand that the FA have invested so much money and time in to this important campaign.
The minute someone from their league tests the waters and commitment to such a campaign, do you think they would undermine themselves with flippant action and ban people for 2 games and see it 'justified'??
No.
Don't be silly.
BillyShears said:stony said:jay_mcfc said:RAWK is always full of it but in here you would think people would realise the difference between racist abuse and other abuse.
I don't see why here should be any different to any other walk of life. There are always people who see things differently. The fact that they are seemingly blind to racism tells it's own story and that's as much as I'll say on it.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm not going to buy into the notion that just because the FA have decided that Suarez is guilty that that equates to him being a racist. I think the FA and Evra himself both acknowledged that they don't believe Suarez to be a racist.
The semantic argument about the word he used and the context within which he used it is hazy at best because - well none of us were there - and not a single player or match official heard anything. Which really does mean it's Suarez's word against Evra's. Again, I'm not going to condemn Suarez simply on Evra's say so.
Liverpool have handled the entire situation appallingly and should really sack whoever's been advising them. Shit gets said on a football pitches all over the world. Maybe if someone had had a quiet word with Suarez and told him to ring Evra and apologize for causing offence the whole thing could and probably would have gone away. Instead they're in a situation where they'll probably lose their best player for quite a few games, and the player himself is going to be vilified so much that he'll probably look for a transfer out of England at the next decent opportunity.
Having said all that there's clearly a few on here who harbour some pent up racist frustration. But they're the same whether the discussion is about Suarez, the EDL, or religion. They'll find a way to moan about "PC gone mad".
both of your points just beggar beliefthomasobDK said:BillyShears said:stony said:I don't see why here should be any different to any other walk of life. There are always people who see things differently. The fact that they are seemingly blind to racism tells it's own story and that's as much as I'll say on it.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm not going to buy into the notion that just because the FA have decided that Suarez is guilty that that equates to him being a racist. I think the FA and Evra himself both acknowledged that they don't believe Suarez to be a racist.
The semantic argument about the word he used and the context within which he used it is hazy at best because - well none of us were there - and not a single player or match official heard anything. Which really does mean it's Suarez's word against Evra's. Again, I'm not going to condemn Suarez simply on Evra's say so.
Liverpool have handled the entire situation appallingly and should really sack whoever's been advising them. Shit gets said on a football pitches all over the world. Maybe if someone had had a quiet word with Suarez and told him to ring Evra and apologize for causing offence the whole thing could and probably would have gone away. Instead they're in a situation where they'll probably lose their best player for quite a few games, and the player himself is going to be vilified so much that he'll probably look for a transfer out of England at the next decent opportunity.
Having said all that there's clearly a few on here who harbour some pent up racist frustration. But they're the same whether the discussion is about Suarez, the EDL, or religion. They'll find a way to moan about "PC gone mad".
i am worried about 2 things in this whole scenario:
1. calling somebody bad things must now be an 8 game ban for whoever does it from now on. there can be no sliding scale on this. it must be the same punishment for any kinds of discrimination, so if aguero loses his cool today, and call thomas sorensen a retarded danish bastard he too must suffer the same ban, or else the fa will practically say that danish and/or retarded people isn't doesn't deserve the same kind of justice as evra in this case.
2. i simply cannot understand why verbal assault is getting 4 times the bans a violent assault gets. and the fact that someone on here actually says they would rather have bones broken than being called a racist name just blows my mind...
maybe i am especially thick-skinned and being a straight white guy i probably never will understand the offended parts point of view, but evra isn't really a little teenage girl with insecurity issues, he is a fullgrown man. i mean just call suarez a donkey-looking fuckfaced diving **** and get on with the game.
Sabster said:DiscoSteve said:Even if Suarez used the N word, to my mind there is no difference between the use of that as a "slagging off" word as compared to a whole multitude that exist in the Male Workplace which are used equally to derogatory effect - calling someone fat, thin, short, tall, bald whatever - its all the same - you are making a derogatory comment about someones physical appearance - why does the colour of someones skin STILL have special status in this respect in 2011? Its fecking ridiculous and society needs to get hold of itself and say - its either all or nothing? not some half baked situation rooted in history - don't get me wrong blacks and asians were treated disgracefully in the past, but that was then and this is now, the 21st Century
THIS
Yet all the Spanish speaking players before him knew better.Rana said:Sabster said:DiscoSteve said:Even if Suarez used the N word, to my mind there is no difference between the use of that as a "slagging off" word as compared to a whole multitude that exist in the Male Workplace which are used equally to derogatory effect - calling someone fat, thin, short, tall, bald whatever - its all the same - you are making a derogatory comment about someones physical appearance - why does the colour of someones skin STILL have special status in this respect in 2011? Its fecking ridiculous and society needs to get hold of itself and say - its either all or nothing? not some half baked situation rooted in history - don't get me wrong blacks and asians were treated disgracefully in the past, but that was then and this is now, the 21st Century
THIS
I agree...and I would add that the "negro" word is not offensive in spanish, altough I can understand that it could be a racist word in english, Suarez is not Supposed to know that and I'm sure he will not say "negro" again in England. :P
There have been a lot of football players and sportsman in Spain or South America nicknamed's "negro" or something similar.
One of the best uruguayans footballers in history was known as "el negro jefe":
<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obdulio_Varela" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obdulio_Varela</a>
IMO it's a cultural misunderstanding.
thomasobDK said:BillyShears said:stony said:I don't see why here should be any different to any other walk of life. There are always people who see things differently. The fact that they are seemingly blind to racism tells it's own story and that's as much as I'll say on it.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm not going to buy into the notion that just because the FA have decided that Suarez is guilty that that equates to him being a racist. I think the FA and Evra himself both acknowledged that they don't believe Suarez to be a racist.
The semantic argument about the word he used and the context within which he used it is hazy at best because - well none of us were there - and not a single player or match official heard anything. Which really does mean it's Suarez's word against Evra's. Again, I'm not going to condemn Suarez simply on Evra's say so.
Liverpool have handled the entire situation appallingly and should really sack whoever's been advising them. Shit gets said on a football pitches all over the world. Maybe if someone had had a quiet word with Suarez and told him to ring Evra and apologize for causing offence the whole thing could and probably would have gone away. Instead they're in a situation where they'll probably lose their best player for quite a few games, and the player himself is going to be vilified so much that he'll probably look for a transfer out of England at the next decent opportunity.
Having said all that there's clearly a few on here who harbour some pent up racist frustration. But they're the same whether the discussion is about Suarez, the EDL, or religion. They'll find a way to moan about "PC gone mad".
i am worried about 2 things in this whole scenario:
1. calling somebody bad things must now be an 8 game ban for whoever does it from now on. there can be no sliding scale on this. it must be the same punishment for any kinds of discrimination, so if aguero loses his cool today, and call thomas sorensen a retarded danish bastard he too must suffer the same ban, or else the fa will practically say that danish and/or retarded people isn't doesn't deserve the same kind of justice as evra in this case.
2. i simply cannot understand why verbal assault is getting 4 times the bans a violent assault gets. and the fact that someone on here actually says they would rather have bones broken than being called a racist name just blows my mind...
maybe i am especially thick-skinned and being a straight white guy i probably never will understand the offended parts point of view, but evra isn't really a little teenage girl with insecurity issues, he is a fullgrown man. i mean just call suarez a donkey-looking fuckfaced diving **** and get on with the game.
BillyShears said:TCIB said:Yeah we want a racist banned so we are fustrated racists.
You've got hold of the wrong end of the stick there mate. I'm talking about those people who are saying that IF he did use a racist word there's nothing wrong with it and we live in a "PC world gone mad". Not those who think he should be charged/banned.
A panel took a lot of time over this, basically you saying the people on the panel are no good at distinguishing the context of words said.
It'll be clearer when the judgement is published - but my understanding is that nobody could corroborate Evra's allegations. No match official and no player ie. so it comes down to Suarez's own admission from the very beginning that he used a term which he did not consider to be racist. The panel obviously disagreed with him on the basis I imagine that in Britain, the word could only ever be seen as racist.
You do NOT have any idea what the exact evidence was so for a kick off your assuming a hell of a lot.
Nobody here does. The difference is that I'm not rushing to judgement because Suarez is a "buck toothed **** with previous".