Scholes: I'm worried that City are ahead at youth level

[oakiecokie]

Aren't United already second in their own city?

They don`t live in a city,they don`t play in a city,and they don`t belong in OUR City !!

 

[Timperley_blue]

Don't understand the comments about 'small number of kids' or 'casting the net wider'.

Surely City will have more kids at the academy than Utd, as they have more places available ?

Also, the experience of my mate's lad at Utd, was the absolute polar opposite of what is described here.

What I mean by that is that City seem to be putting a huge amount of resources into a very small number of boys (Heskey, Van Persie, Neville, Savage kids among them) while almost treating the many other boys as peripheral figures - as if 'oh, we need some lads to play with our best kids, I suppose these will do'. It doesn't raise the aspirations of the many boys that they have at development centres or the others which train at the Academy.
By contrast, United seem more open to the idea that any of the many boys they have could develop into a top player - as such, I have personally seen more kids develop at a faster rate there than I have at City.

Don't get me wrong, the coaching is top class at both clubs and my lad is fortunate to receive a 'money can't buy' experience at both. The ethos, when we are talking about little boys just appears to be quite different.

 

[Bluep*ss]

(Navas) - Am I worried that he is worried? - am I F*CK..............

 

[Graceyboy]

Don't understand the comments about 'small number of kids' or 'casting the net wider'.

Surely City will have more kids at the academy than Utd, as they have more places available ?

Also, the experience of my mate's lad at Utd, was the absolute polar opposite of what is described here.

I think he is questioning the feeder systems into the academy is smaller for City, than United. But like I mentioned in my post, I know that Utd have shut alot of development centres, so that catchment area is being turned off for them.

City are currently running at about 65% "Local" lads under the age of 16, which really is great encouragement. I suppose it all depends on if they are managing to capture the best of the areas cohort, or are other clubs getting them due to the scouting system and development centres of other clubs doing more work? Only time will tell.

What I do know is that at all the academies have very talented boys. Its which club REALLY wants to utilise them properly.

 

[Timperley_blue]

Don't understand the comments about 'small number of kids' or 'casting the net wider'.

Surely City will have more kids at the academy than Utd, as they have more places available ?

Also, the experience of my mate's lad at Utd, was the absolute polar opposite of what is described here.

I think he is questioning the feeder systems into the academy is smaller for City, than United. But like I mentioned in my post, I know that Utd have shut alot of development centres, so that catchment area is being turned off for them.

City are currently running at about 65% "Local" lads under the age of 16, which really is great encouragement. I suppose it all depends on if they are managing to capture the best of the areas cohort, or are other clubs getting them due to the scouting system and development centres of other clubs doing more work? Only time will tell.

What I do know is that at all the academies have very talented boys. Its which club REALLY wants to utilise them properly.

Couldn't agree more, my boy also had short experiences with Everton and Bolton and the ability of some young lads at a very early age is staggering at all 4 clubs. The question is how to harness that ability and see it bear fruit 10-12 years later. At United its more a case of nurturing and caring for all, whearas at City it seems to be more 'football factory'.

 

[r.soleofsalford]

surely its about quality over quantity at 8 or 9 years old, players if they prove themselves elsewhere, might get a tempting offer to play for us.

 

[oakiecokie]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/paul-scholes-column-as-a-manchester-united-man-im-worried-that-manchester-city-have-moved-ahead-of-the-game-at-youth-level-9919194.html

When I was a kid, it was the case among the lads I played football with that if Manchester United wanted to sign you then joining Manchester City was not even a consideration. United did not have to persuade or offer inducements. We would have walked there ourselves.
Thirty years on, and the picture in Manchester is very different and, as a United fan, it worries me. Trying to look at it from a neutral perspective I have to say that what City have achieved is impressive and their impact on the youth scene in Manchester began long before the opening of their City Football Academy this week, an event which seems to have generated more publicity in some quarters than the arrival of Christmas itself.

It has been no secret among people I know in football that City have taken great strides in their youth academy programmes, to the extent that there are even United players past and present who have, or at least once had, sons at City’s academy. That will be difficult for a lot of United fans to get their heads around. I guess when it comes to a parent wanting the right thing for their child, it takes precedence over even the deepest loyalties.

Producing young footballers is a very difficult process. I was part of a group of players who managed to battle our way right through the youth teams and reserves at a club we loved to be very successful in the first team. We know that it does not happen often. Clearly, City feel that if they can produce just a handful of first-team players from their new £200m academy it will have been worth the investment, and surely that is right.

United have won 10 FA Youth Cups, more than any club in the land and eight more than City. Yet the buzz in Manchester is that it is City now who have the better academy programme. That it is City who are getting the better players in the local area. How that has happened, I cannot say definitively but it will come down to more than one factor. Clearly, the offer of a professional contract when a boy turns 17, and the size of that contract can never be ignored.

It is also about the coaching too. I am more in favour of creating footballers who know how to do the jobs they need to do in a game. At City the emphasis has, I am told, been more about teaching kids to play in certain systems. The results of all the age-group teams are not published by the clubs, not below the Under-18s anyway, but I have heard that when the clubs play each other across the age groups, it is City who come out on top.

Some people say that winning is not that important in youth development. I disagree. You learn about being a footballer by playing matches and you learn about winning by winning those games. Playing at United, in the Under-16s and Under-18s, we were expected to win every week. My contemporaries, people like Nicky Butt and Ryan Giggs, were born and bred winners, and that was the way United liked it. Winning games prepared us for the first team, where we were expected to win every time we stepped on the pitch.

It is a nice idea to say to kids “it doesn’t matter about the result”, but when you become a professional you quickly realise that is all that matters. The sooner you get the winning mentality, the better.

United last won the FA Youth Cup, an Under-18s competition, in 2011 and they were beaten by Chelsea, another very strong academy, in the semi-final the following year. City last won it in 2008 and in the last three years have been knocked out in the fifth round, twice by Fulham. What might concern United fans is that in the last two years their team has been eliminated by Burnley and, last season, Huddersfield Town.

The FA Youth Cup is just one way of taking the temperature of a club’s academy. United have a fantastic history in producing players and there will always be boys who will want to come to the club. The issue is whether they are good enough for the first team. Some of the current lads who have been promoted, such as Paddy McNair and Tyler Blackett, have benefited from an injury crisis but will they be there in the long term? James Wilson clearly has a chance of making the grade.

The bigger picture is how City have upped the stakes with their new academy and training complex. United’s Carrington base is a great training ground and academy, but City have just taken theirs to another level. These things matter now. It is a long way from the days when I used to get three buses from my home in north Manchester to the old Cliff training ground in Salford.

It is a subject that I make no excuse for returning to. In those days you were expected to get yourself to training on time. There were no minibuses to ferry you around. None of the mollycoddling. It was sink or swim and I loved it, especially being with my mates all day. It taught me about being a good footballer but also about taking responsibility for myself. I learnt to be streetwise.

But things change and you can take nothing for granted. In the modern era, United, with their history of being the greatest talent producer, have to watch that they do not become second choice in their own city.

Some years ago approx late 1980`s I was talking to Glyn Pardoe and we started talking about youth players.He told me a story whereby this talented youngster (I think from Wythenshawe but ISC) who had been with us for about 3 years.
On his 16th birthday they went around to his house to sign this young lad on.Imagine their surprise when they parked the car and low and behold a brand new black Ford Escort XL was sitting on the youngsters front garden.
Glyn said that the family were certainly poor and there is no way they would have been way they could have affored to pay any insurance,let alone buy a car.
The family decided,including the young lad,that he wouldn`t be signing a full contract with the Blues.A few days passed and low and behold he had signed for the Rags.Now guess who bought him this wonderful Birthday Present ?
As Glyn said at the time "there is no way that we could compete with United and nor would we do,based on their handling of this affair".
Karma is a wonderful thing Mr.Scholes and what goes around comes around.Tough shite !

 

[Timperley_blue]

surely its about quality over quantity at 8 or 9 years old, players if they prove themselves elsewhere, might get a tempting offer to play for us.

Yes but the best players now won't necessarily develop into the best players in 10 years time

 

[Graceyboy]

Don't understand the comments about 'small number of kids' or 'casting the net wider'.

Surely City will have more kids at the academy than Utd, as they have more places available ?

Also, the experience of my mate's lad at Utd, was the absolute polar opposite of what is described here.

What I mean by that is that City seem to be putting a huge amount of resources into a very small number of boys (Heskey, Van Persie, Neville, Savage kids among them) while almost treating the many other boys as peripheral figures - as if 'oh, we need some lads to play with our best kids, I suppose these will do'. It doesn't raise the aspirations of the many boys that they have at development centres or the others which train at the Academy.
By contrast, United seem more open to the idea that any of the many boys they have could develop into a top player - as such, I have personally seen more kids develop at a faster rate there than I have at City.

Don't get me wrong, the coaching is top class at both clubs and my lad is fortunate to receive a 'money can't buy' experience at both. The ethos, when we are talking about little boys just appears to be quite different.

I don't think its about the Boys developing at a faster rate at United. I know exactly what you mean though. At united, the boys are progressing through the coaching at a different rate. The boys at United progress to learning things (decision making, passing, positions etc) earlier. Whereas I think City and Liverpool take their time in the basics and mastering the skills and the ball and being brave with the ball, because you cant teach that later on. Its the building bricks that need to be laid solidly, and picking the right lads that have got the skill. You can educate positional play and formations etc, you cant teach natural ability on the ball. You can coach and decompose a skill as a good coach, and demonstrate it, but it is the natural ability of the kids that learn it, practice it and master it. Not all kids can do it. The naturally talented lads can, and its these lads that naturally go forward. (There are exceptions)
As I say above, I think City and Liverpool have a more key focus on this groundwork, knowing once they can select the true talent, the other components of being a footballer can be added later.

 

[BlueTG]

He still has to get a dig in at our wages doesn't he?

Because United have never paid anyone more money than any another team in the football league, have they?