Scottish Football Thread | 2024/25

[MadchesterCity]

Think McInnes summed the whole incident up well in his interview. Referee was right next to it, was sure he made the right decision at the time but then inexplicably changed his mind. The tackle was fast and a bit high but studs were down and as I say he pulled back when you see it again. Yellow was fine here imo, McInnes calls it right when it's one of those that VAR just doesn't need to involve itself in. That being said, if referee had gave red initially I don't think you could argue clear and obvious error either, again should just have been left to the referee either way.

Think we'll need more than luck on Thursday. Second goal has likely killed it as a contest.

On an Aberdeen note, that performance was night and day from anything i saw from you last season. Some of the movement down the left hand side in particular was impressive and caused us problems throughout.

Just watched it again on Sportscene, thought it was a definite red at the match, but think it’s a 50/50 red after seeing replay

 

[No.8]

You're quoting match attendances. Not number of HOME supporters. HOME supports are down when Kilmarnock, St Mirren and others play the old firm. Overall crowd at RP will be HIGHER as Rangers/Celtic bring 4,000 fans to St Johnstone's/Ross County's 100 or so.

That is so fucking simple to understand but here you are struggling along. Is day to day life this complicated for you?


Ahhhh the "independent" VAR review. Comprised of former players, managers and coaches. I assume you realise who the bulk of them will support and the type of characters involved in the nonsense? Independent is a laughable concept.



And if I'm under 14 then you just got fucking schooled on attendance comment by a child. How does that make you feel, thicko?

Edit - I should say that I signed up to this forum in May 2008. I'd be doing well to still be under 14, but then again you're struggling with the whole math thing so I wouldn't expect you to understand.

I knew that would be your answer. The crowds for Rangers and Celtic home games are thousands more than the usual Killie crowds of 4,500-6,200 ish. They have little to no affect to the HOME support. There are certainly not thousands of home supporters staying away.

You make a good point about the IRP being faceless ‘experts’. I’d rather the panel were known and open to questions from supporters of all clubs. I’d like referees to be allowed to explain decisions. Simple solution and we would at least then know how decisions were arrived at.

As far as the penalty v Copenhagen. I’d already mentioned Elyounousi had been diving earlier and the contact at the penalty was exaggerated by the Copenhagen player. The replay shows the Killie defender going for the bouncing ball and kicking their players leg. Absolutely no intent to foul the player and pre VAR would rarely ever be a penalty but now they give these decisions more often than not. I get your frustration. I said after the Kiev game and the unanimous condemnation of the Italian referee (except from your good self) that you get some inexplicable decisions in European football. We were knocked out last season by Benfica by a penalty that never was.

Anyway all the best on Thursday and I hope both clubs can get a result. Killie certainly need a team performance to kick start their season

 

[No.8]

Just watched it again on Sportscene, thought it was a definite red at the match, but think it’s a 50/50 red after seeing replay

Will be interesting to see the outcome of the appeal. Rangers had two similar Red cards and lost both appeals only for the IRP to later say they were both VAR errors.

I suppose you’ll always get inconsistencies in subjective calls.

For me it’s a harsh Red as he does try , at the last second , to pull out but he’s committed to the challenge. The speed and height will probably go against him in the appeal

 

[ayrshire_blue]

I knew that would be your answer. The crowds for Rangers and Celtic home games are thousands more than the usual Killie crowds of 4,500-6,200 ish. They have little to no affect to the HOME support. There are certainly not thousands of home supporters staying away.

You're wrong, I don't know how else to put it across to you. The number of home supporters on seats for these games are always lower than games Vs any other team. They (old firm) are the opposite of an "attraction". I'm not sure how Kilmarnock (or other clubs) for that matter count official attendances - IE is it tickets sold which include every season ticket holder whether in attendance or not? Or is it every person through the turnstiles that day (more accurate)? I know various clubs report differently, I'm not sure.

What I am sure about, having had a season ticket for about 25 years of my life, is that our crowd is way down for these fixtures as people choose to stay away. There's much more empty seats than what's present for all other league home matches.

There was a period during the Michael Johnston chairman era (who loved to bend over backwards for the old firm) that home support was regularly under 2,000 people. I don't mean that in a hyperbolic way, the home stands were genuinely as empty as I've ever seen them.

Sometimes it's maybe better just to take my word for it. I go every week, I see it for myself. There will be various factors at play with how official numbers are counted as said above but it's down. A home tie against hearts, st Mirren, Ross county or whoever will see more home supporters in attendance than if we were playing any of the old firm.

As for the red card again, I fully agree with @MadchesterCity post that it's 50/50. Which is why I've said it shouldn't have been for VAR to get involved as there wasn't a clear and obvious error from the referees initial decision of yellow. If his initial decision had been red, again I wouldn't have expected it to be reviewed and downgraded either. My personal opinion is that yellow was fine, however that's the only one of our 3 red cards this season where I disagree with the officials - the other 2 have been fully merited.

If we've appealed it I think we'll lose.

 

[Magicpole]

You're wrong, I don't know how else to put it across to you. The number of home supporters on seats for these games are always lower than games Vs any other team. They (old firm) are the opposite of an "attraction". I'm not sure how Kilmarnock (or other clubs) for that matter count official attendances - IE is it tickets sold which include every season ticket holder whether in attendance or not? Or is it every person through the turnstiles that day (more accurate)? I know various clubs report differently, I'm not sure.

What I am sure about, having had a season ticket for about 25 years of my life, is that our crowd is way down for these fixtures as people choose to stay away. There's much more empty seats than what's present for all other league home matches.

There was a period during the Michael Johnston chairman era (who loved to bend over backwards for the old firm) that home support was regularly under 2,000 people. I don't mean that in a hyperbolic way, the home stands were genuinely as empty as I've ever seen them.

Sometimes it's maybe better just to take my word for it. I go every week, I see it for myself. There will be various factors at play with how official numbers are counted as said above but it's down. A home tie against hearts, st Mirren, Ross county or whoever will see more home supporters in attendance than if we were playing any of the old firm.

As for the red card again, I fully agree with @MadchesterCity post that it's 50/50. Which is why I've said it shouldn't have been for VAR to get involved as there wasn't a clear and obvious error from the referees initial decision of yellow. If his initial decision had been red, again I wouldn't have expected it to be reviewed and downgraded either. My personal opinion is that yellow was fine, however that's the only one of our 3 red cards this season where I disagree with the officials - the other 2 have been fully merited.

If we've appealed it I think we'll lose.

Do they stay away because it’s on the telly? And has nothing to do with them hating us?

 

[ayrshire_blue]

Do they stay away because it’s on the telly? And has nothing to do with them hating us?

No. I mean it might be the case for a good few but on the whole, no. It'll also be the case for some that they just can't take getting humped much more often than not. I'm critical of that mindset though in my experience is thankfully a factor only representing a small amount compared to the main.

I suppose it's something difficult to explain to those who actually support one of the two. Walking to and from the ground amongst them is a really unpleasant experience, never mind being subjected to the 90 odd minutes of IRA/UVF/sectarian/political chanting (which I know you and no.8 are both critical of). It just doesn't hold any appeal.

Personally, returning the Moffat stand to home supporters has helped greatly. It means that old firm fans are generally all attending via the one route so if you plan accordingly you can almost get to and from the ground without actually encountering many at all. I didn't used to take my kid to these games, I do now. Feel it's safer for them, didn't always feel that way.

 

[No.8]

You're wrong, I don't know how else to put it across to you. The number of home supporters on seats for these games are always lower than games Vs any other team. They (old firm) are the opposite of an "attraction". I'm not sure how Kilmarnock (or other clubs) for that matter count official attendances - IE is it tickets sold which include every season ticket holder whether in attendance or not? Or is it every person through the turnstiles that day (more accurate)? I know various clubs report differently, I'm not sure.

What I am sure about, having had a season ticket for about 25 years of my life, is that our crowd is way down for these fixtures as people choose to stay away. There's much more empty seats than what's present for all other league home matches.

There was a period during the Michael Johnston chairman era (who loved to bend over backwards for the old firm) that home support was regularly under 2,000 people. I don't mean that in a hyperbolic way, the home stands were genuinely as empty as I've ever seen them.

Sometimes it's maybe better just to take my word for it. I go every week, I see it for myself. There will be various factors at play with how official numbers are counted as said above but it's down. A home tie against hearts, st Mirren, Ross county or whoever will see more home supporters in attendance than if we were playing any of the old firm.

As for the red card again, I fully agree with @MadchesterCity post that it's 50/50. Which is why I've said it shouldn't have been for VAR to get involved as there wasn't a clear and obvious error from the referees initial decision of yellow. If his initial decision had been red, again I wouldn't have expected it to be reviewed and downgraded either. My personal opinion is that yellow was fine, however that's the only one of our 3 red cards this season where I disagree with the officials - the other 2 have been fully merited.

If we've appealed it I think we'll lose.

Leaving aside attendances

VAR got involved as it’s above ankle level. Nowadays if you go in at speed at that height it’s always going to put to VAR. The referee doesn’t have to change decision and last season we had Don Robertson sent to the screen as the Sterling challenge barely touched the Aberdeen players big toe. Robertson stuck with his Red card.

I’m just repeating myself but all football supporters want is consistency and transparency. We get neither

 

[No.8]

Do they stay away because it’s on the telly? And has nothing to do with them hating us?

Or they are fed up with the duopoly winning the trophies and have little appetite watching their team losing again..

I don’t have the answers but something has to be done to narrow the gap/ improve real competition

 

[ayrshire_blue]

Leaving aside attendances

VAR got involved as it’s above ankle level. Nowadays if you go in at speed at that height it’s always going to put to VAR. The referee doesn’t have to change decision and last season we had Don Robertson sent to the screen as the Sterling challenge barely touched the Aberdeen players big toe. Robertson stuck with his Red card.

I’m just repeating myself but all football supporters want is consistency and transparency. We get neither

Agree on the consistency.

We were led to believe prior to this season that there would be a "higher bar" or at least a clearer definition of when VAR should be getting involved.

The challenge was high, I don't dispute that. I do dispute that the referee has completely missed a significant part of it and VAR had to ask him for a review as I just don't see it as meeting the criteria. A 50/50 decision which imo (I know I'm repeating myself) should have been left to the referee's onfield call.

McInnes makes an interesting point, the VAR official is more experienced than the referee. Has the referee caved in because someone with more experience disagrees with him (imo wrongly)? Don't know.

 

[MadchesterCity]

Will be interesting to see the outcome of the appeal. Rangers had two similar Red cards and lost both appeals only for the IRP to later say they were both VAR errors.

I suppose you’ll always get inconsistencies in subjective calls.

For me it’s a harsh Red as he does try , at the last second , to pull out but he’s committed to the challenge. The speed and height will probably go against him in the appeal

I think it’s a certainty any appeal won’t be successful, I also know I’d have been off after 5 minutes every game that I was playing. Football and standards for tackling have changed drastically