Scottish independence

[Mike N]

It's true that some posters on this thread come across like propert dickheads.

 

[CityFan94]

For all the English people on this thread; how would you feel about a Scottish government making all your decisions?

That's the equivalent to what's happening to Scotland now, with all the decisions being made in Westminster.

My opinion on the whole thing is I believe a Scottish government should be making the decisions for the people of Scotland.

Comparisons to Zimbabwe are absolutely bizzare!

 

[west didsblue]

If they vote yes and their economy goes tits up, I wonder if large areas of England's inner cities will become populated by economic migrants from north of the border once the Poles, Romanians, Asians and Africans move out to the more affluent suburbs. Will there be a load of takeaways that specialise in deep fried Mars bars, deep fried pizza, deep fried pies and haggis, neeps & tatties?

 

[BlueBearBoots]

For all the English people on this thread; how would you feel about a Scottish government making all your decisions?

That's the equivalent to what's happening to Scotland now, with all the decisions being made in Westminster.

My opinion on the whole thing is I believe a Scottish government should be making the decisions for the people of Scotland.

Comparisons to Zimbabwe are absolutely bizzare!

but dont forget Scottish MP's can vote in parliament on issues which only affect England, as things stand

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

For all the English people on this thread; how would you feel about a Scottish government making all your decisions?

That's the equivalent to what's happening to Scotland now, with all the decisions being made in Westminster.

My opinion on the whole thing is I believe a Scottish government should be making the decisions for the people of Scotland.

Comparisons to Zimbabwe are absolutely bizzare!

It was YOUR King in 1603 who decided to take over OUR crown, so it's too late to whinge now. Pffft!

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

Good input into the thread,fukn not.
I'm not getting involved in the yes/no shit.
But some of the anti Scots posts on here are a fukn disgrace.
Let them fuk off,wasters,scroungers.
Hadrians wall,junkies,gingers blah blah fukn blah.
It's actually 2014 up here as well you know.
We have electricity,wear trousers not kilts,apart from the fukn. "Tartan army"...sad c**ts. :)
We're only 100 miles from Manchester ffs.
Get a grip some of you eh.

Yep, as I say, piss off Scotland.

Full of moaning twats taking up all the media coverage, especially Salmond.

Pretty embarrassing to see borderline racist comments by a moderator.

For supporters of a football club who have been very unhappy at racism being aimed at our players, I thought we were better than that.

Well done Sam on becoming a moderator i say...

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Yep, as I say, piss off Scotland.

Full of moaning twats taking up all the media coverage, especially Salmond.

Pretty embarrassing to see borderline racist comments by a moderator.

For supporters of a football club who have been very unhappy at racism being aimed at our players, I thought we were better than that.

Well done Sam on becoming a moderator i say...

Fully deserved, I say. He's worked his socks off.

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

Pretty embarrassing to see borderline racist comments by a moderator.

For supporters of a football club who have been very unhappy at racism being aimed at our players, I thought we were better than that.

Well done Sam on becoming a moderator i say...

Fully deserved, I say. He's worked his socks off.

Is he like you, a moderator without portfolio?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Well done Sam on becoming a moderator i say...

Fully deserved, I say. He's worked his socks off.

Is he like you, a moderator without portfolio?

No, he's simply a moderator.

 

[Bill Walker]

Scots Wha Hae, or, Robert Bruce’s Address to His Troops at Bannockburnpoem


Scots, wha hae wi’ Wallace bled,
Scots, wham Bruce has aften led,
Welcome to your gory bed,—
Or to victorie.—

Now ’s the day, and now’s the hour;
See the front o’ battle lour;
See approach proud Edward’s power,
Chains and Slaverie.—

Wha will be a traitor-knave?
Wha can fill a cowards’ grave?
Wha sae base as be a Slave?
—Let him turn and flie.—

Wha for Scotland’s king and law,
Freedom’s sword will strongly draw,
Free-Man stand, or Free-Man fa’,
Let him follow me.—

By Oppression’s woes and pains!
By your Sons in servile chains!
We will drain our dearest veins,
But they shall be free!

Lay the proud Usurpers low!
Tyrants fall in every foe!
Liberty ’s in every blow!
Let us Do—or Die!!!

Robert Burns

 

[metalblue]

hmm but Scotland dont have the facilities for heart/lung transplants for example. Not very "recipocral" if they dont offer anything we dont already have and we offer facilities they havent ever had!

but surely if the become an independent country they will have to acquire these things ?

dont see how without a massive cash injection, nothing stopping them from doing that since 1999 but it hasnt happened.

It's an interesting question. The SNP have done a good job scaring people into believing the NHS is safe with them, but as you point out it's been theirs for a number of years already (incidently with a smaller budget increase in % terms than rUK since then). Anyway back to the question, we can only base it on current protocol, there are certain budget transfer already that allow NHS scotland to block buy certain treatment so some specalist treatments carried out south of border should be uneffected however the missing question that the yes campaign failed to answer is those that are outside of those agreements. If they are not resident in rUK then in theory as foreign nationals they will be liable to charges for any non-emergency treatment, if they join the EU then the Scottish government is liable to be charged. Nonetheless this highlights the biggest thing for me; there are far too many unanswered questions still out there and when this vote is only 2 days away that is an absurd place to be. The yes campaign is managing to hide their incompetence behind romantic notions, they should have these agreements (at least in principle) in place already ahead of any referundum, don't forget they picked the date for the vote.

 

[dawlish dave]

Scots Wha Hae, or, Robert Bruce’s Address to His Troops at Bannockburnpoem


Scots, wha hae wi’ Wallace bled,
Scots, wham Bruce has aften led,
Welcome to your gory bed,—
Or to victorie.—

Now ’s the day, and now’s the hour;
See the front o’ battle lour;
See approach proud Edward’s power,
Chains and Slaverie.—

Wha will be a traitor-knave?
Wha can fill a cowards’ grave?
Wha sae base as be a Slave?
—Let him turn and flie.—

Wha for Scotland’s king and law,
Freedom’s sword will strongly draw,
Free-Man stand, or Free-Man fa’,
Let him follow me.—

By Oppression’s woes and pains!
By your Sons in servile chains!
We will drain our dearest veins,
But they shall be free!

Lay the proud Usurpers low!
Tyrants fall in every foe!
Liberty ’s in every blow!
Let us Do—or Die!!!
f
Robert Burns

WTF. Cant wait or the "friendly" footy game at Celtic Park.

 

[west didsblue]

For all the English people on this thread; how would you feel about a Scottish government making all your decisions?
That's the equivalent to what's happening to Scotland now, with all the decisions being made in Westminster.

My opinion on the whole thing is I believe a Scottish government should be making the decisions for the people of Scotland.

Comparisons to Zimbabwe are absolutely bizzare!

In the last 25 years we've had Scottish born Prime Ministers for 13 years, Scottish Chancellors for 17 years and Scottish Foreign Secretarys for 6 years so we're quite used to it.

 

[BlueBearBoots]

but surely if the become an independent country they will have to acquire these things ?

dont see how without a massive cash injection, nothing stopping them from doing that since 1999 but it hasnt happened.

It's an interesting question. The SNP have done a good job scaring people into believing the NHS is safe with them, but as you point out it's been theirs for a number of years already (incidently with a smaller budget increase in % terms than rUK since then). Anyway back to the question, we can only base it on current protocol, there are certain budget transfer already that allow NHS scotland to block buy certain treatment so some specalist treatments carried out south of border should be uneffected however the missing question that the yes campaign failed to answer is those that are outside of those agreements. If they are not resident in rUK then in theory as foreign nationals they will be liable to charges for any non-emergency treatment, if they join the EU then the Scottish government is liable to be charged. Nonetheless this highlights the biggest thing for me; there are far too many unanswered questions still out there and when this vote is only 2 days away that is an absurd place to be. The yes campaign is managing to hide their incompetence behind romantic notions, they should have these agreements (at least in principle) in place already ahead of any referundum, don't forget they picked the date for the vote.

the more I read on the subject of forward planning that hasn't happened the more I believe the SNP have just used the whole exercise to force dialogue and a timetable for more control and benefits. Seems they have the promise of it now from all 3 parties but are ill prepared should a Yes vote actually be the result

 

[mancityvstoke]

Will porridge go up in price?

 

[TGR]

For all the English people on this thread; how would you feel about a Scottish government making all your decisions?
That's the equivalent to what's happening to Scotland now, with all the decisions being made in Westminster.

My opinion on the whole thing is I believe a Scottish government should be making the decisions for the people of Scotland.

Comparisons to Zimbabwe are absolutely bizzare!

In the last 25 years we've had Scottish born Prime Ministers for 13 years, Scottish Chancellors for 17 years and Scottish Foreign Secretarys for 6 years so we're quite used to it.

Excellent answer.

I have just got back from a little 4 day jaunt in Marbella with a few friends and we got talking to a Scottish couple in the hotel.
They reckon it will be a 'No' vote by around 60% to 40%. The reason they said for the polls having it so close is that anyone who
is voting 'No' is scared to death to say so in public. They claimed people who did were getting verbally abused, spat on and heckled.
If you have a 'No' poster in your window then expect a brick to come through it anytime soon.
Therefore the 'No's' are keeping very quiet about it but will obviously cast their vote on Thursday.

I have just checked the odds with a few bookmakers and they have it as:
1/4 for a No vote
3/1 for a Yes vote.
Its pretty rare these guys get it badly wrong.
Unfortunate as I want rid of them once and for all. It looks like I will be disappointed come Friday night.

 

[SWP's back]

Good input into the thread,fukn not.
I'm not getting involved in the yes/no shit.
But some of the anti Scots posts on here are a fukn disgrace.
Let them fuk off,wasters,scroungers.
Hadrians wall,junkies,gingers blah blah fukn blah.
It's actually 2014 up here as well you know.
We have electricity,wear trousers not kilts,apart from the fukn. "Tartan army"...sad c**ts. :)
We're only 100 miles from Manchester ffs.
Get a grip some of you eh.

Yep, as I say, piss off Scotland.

Full of moaning twats taking up all the media coverage, especially Salmond.

Pretty embarrassing to see borderline racist comments by a moderator.

For supporters of a football club who have been very unhappy at racism being aimed at our players, I thought we were better than that.

I was correct in the moaning part I see?

And racism? Man the fuck up. And I say that with my moderator hat on.

 

[Bodicoteblue]

dont see how without a massive cash injection, nothing stopping them from doing that since 1999 but it hasnt happened.

It's an interesting question. The SNP have done a good job scaring people into believing the NHS is safe with them, but as you point out it's been theirs for a number of years already (incidently with a smaller budget increase in % terms than rUK since then). Anyway back to the question, we can only base it on current protocol, there are certain budget transfer already that allow NHS scotland to block buy certain treatment so some specalist treatments carried out south of border should be uneffected however the missing question that the yes campaign failed to answer is those that are outside of those agreements. If they are not resident in rUK then in theory as foreign nationals they will be liable to charges for any non-emergency treatment, if they join the EU then the Scottish government is liable to be charged. Nonetheless this highlights the biggest thing for me; there are far too many unanswered questions still out there and when this vote is only 2 days away that is an absurd place to be. The yes campaign is managing to hide their incompetence behind romantic notions, they should have these agreements (at least in principle) in place already ahead of any referundum, don't forget they picked the date for the vote.

the more I read on the subject of forward planning that hasn't happened the more I believe the SNP have just used the whole exercise to force dialogue and a timetable for more control and benefits. Seems they have the promise of it now from all 3 parties but are ill prepared should a Yes vote actually be the result

Precisely this.
Salmond has used this referendum to pretty much leverage all the powers he wanted for Scotland. A "no" vote will still get him everything the SNP wanted - but , it would include the safety net of still being part of the UK.
He now faces a possibility of having to actually form a cohesive government with virtually the same powers he would have got anyway, but shrouded in almost total insecurity about currency , taxes EU membership etc.
After a yes vote , The SNP will become fairly redundant and the populace will become quickly disenchanted by Salmond as his promises turn out to be unfounded in fact and reality.
There is virtually no representation of the centre right in Scotland and the breakdown of the figures show that the driving force for the "yes " vote is concentrated in the former industrial central belt of Scotland which politically is also very left wing.
Expect a lurch to the left in Scotland ,a vacuum left by the falling away of the SNP, and power will fall into the hands of old fashioned trade- unionists and firebrand socialists like Tommy Sheridan. This will be followed by a massive public spending programme funded by huge tax rises , and probably punitive taxes on oil companies , who will then decide that it has become un-economical to bring the stuff up , as there are plenty of cheaper places all over the world to drill and produce oil. People will see a dramatic fall in house prices and mass emigration of professionals and wealth -creators will ensue.
This will also highlight a familiar problem for Scotland. For years they have told us that they are not being represented by a Westminster government with whom they have nothing in common . Well a highland farmer or fisherman from Lerwick will have very little in common with a career socialist politician from Bathgate, so presumably ( again the figures show that the huge swathe of Scotland North of Stirling is anti - independence) the northerners and islanders can then apply for a referendum on their own independence.
Finally, it really is the triumph of hope over experience to imagine that a group of career politicians in Edinburgh will be any different from their counterparts in London in terms of self-serving greed and incompetence.
Just because they have a Scottish accent doesn't make them any different.

 

[mancityvstoke]

Is Porridge Gobbler a racist term?

 

[mancityvstoke]

It's an interesting question. The SNP have done a good job scaring people into believing the NHS is safe with them, but as you point out it's been theirs for a number of years already (incidently with a smaller budget increase in % terms than rUK since then). Anyway back to the question, we can only base it on current protocol, there are certain budget transfer already that allow NHS scotland to block buy certain treatment so some specalist treatments carried out south of border should be uneffected however the missing question that the yes campaign failed to answer is those that are outside of those agreements. If they are not resident in rUK then in theory as foreign nationals they will be liable to charges for any non-emergency treatment, if they join the EU then the Scottish government is liable to be charged. Nonetheless this highlights the biggest thing for me; there are far too many unanswered questions still out there and when this vote is only 2 days away that is an absurd place to be. The yes campaign is managing to hide their incompetence behind romantic notions, they should have these agreements (at least in principle) in place already ahead of any referundum, don't forget they picked the date for the vote.

the more I read on the subject of forward planning that hasn't happened the more I believe the SNP have just used the whole exercise to force dialogue and a timetable for more control and benefits. Seems they have the promise of it now from all 3 parties but are ill prepared should a Yes vote actually be the result

Precisely this.
Salmond has used this referendum to pretty much leverage all the powers he wanted for Scotland. A "no" vote will still get him everything the SNP wanted - but , it would include the safety net of still being part of the UK.
He now faces a possibility of having to actually form a cohesive government with virtually the same powers he would have got anyway, but shrouded in almost total insecurity about currency , taxes EU membership etc.
After a yes vote , The SNP will become fairly redundant and the populace will become quickly disenchanted by Salmond as his promises turn out to be unfounded in fact and reality.
There is virtually no representation of the centre right in Scotland and the breakdown of the figures show that the driving force for the "yes " vote is concentrated in the former industrial central belt of Scotland which politically is also very left wing.
Expect a lurch to the left in Scotland ,a vacuum left by the falling away of the SNP, and power will fall into the hands of old fashioned trade- unionists and firebrand socialists like Tommy Sheridan. This will be followed by a massive public spending programme funded by huge tax rises , and probably punitive taxes on oil companies , who will then decide that it has become un-economical to bring the stuff up , as there are plenty of cheaper places all over the world to drill and produce oil. People will see a dramatic fall in house prices and mass emigration of professionals and wealth -creators will ensue.
This will also highlight a familiar problem for Scotland. For years they have told us that they are not being represented by a Westminster government with whom they have nothing in common . Well a highland farmer or fisherman from Lerwick will have very little in common with a career socialist politician from Bathgate, so presumably ( again the figures show that the huge swathe of Scotland North of Stirling is anti - independence) the northerners and islanders can then apply for a referendum on their own independence.
Finally, it really is the triumph of hope over experience to imagine that a group of career politicians in Edinburgh will be any different from their counterparts in London in terms of self-serving greed and incompetence.
Just because they have a Scottish accent doesn't make them any different.

That bit