Scottish Independence

[hilts]

So is NI. Yet it has been treated differently. We have decided that the economic writ of the EU shall run in NI. The EU Single Market will apply in some NI sectors. We have decided to divide our Union with an internal customs border.

It seems the ‘Union’ only applies when it suits England.

We have treated NI different due to circumstances beyond our control, it’s not favouritism by choice. I could flip this argument about treating countries within the union separately but you would run for the hills. I would have put a border up in Ireland but you know they have their ‘problems’ so there you go. England wales and Scotland are all being treated the same.

Self determination is important so anyone can leave if respecting a democratic vote is too much to live with.

 

[BobKowalski]

Firstly dont be as presumptuous as to asume you know how or or i vote for, as you have no idea, and to state as much like you did clearly weakens any point you are trying to make.

It's also a shame you are unable to debate anything on here without returning to your one sided view of the politics even when it has very little to do with the point of discussion!

I feel sometimes Bob you just argue with people on here for the sake of it. NY coming up perhaps try turning over a new leaf?

I never presumed how you voted. I pointed out you sided with those who opposed regions having a voice or power with your hostility to SNP/Scotland/Sturgeon whilst bemoaning the lack of voice or power for other regions. Strong regional power, devolved power, representation, these are the keys to unlocking regional wealth disparity.

In the US, States have a big say in trade deals and also a deciding say at federal level via Congress. In Europe some countries have regional Parliaments as well as national Parliaments voting on them. This protects people at a local level and why in Europe wealth is more evenly distributed. In the U.K. we vote for the opposite and then wonder why there is a huge gulf between London and the rest of England. This is partly because we are wedded to the strong man principle of Govt and react with horror when executive power is checked by a hung Parliament or challenged by the Scottish Govt.

 

[BobKowalski]

We have treated NI different due to circumstances beyond our control, it’s not favouritism by choice. I could flip this argument about treating countries within the union separately but you would run for the hills. I would have put a border up in Ireland but you know they have their ‘problems’ so there you go. England wales and Scotland are all being treated the same.

Self determination is important so anyone can leave if respecting a democratic vote is too much to live with.

So we didn’t vote ‘as one’ and not all countries were treated equally making your argument redundant. And if one country is treated on a different basis you open the door for other countries to be treated differently.

I also enjoyed the irony that NI ‘was beyond our control’. Wasn’t Brexit all about ‘taking back control’?

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

I never presumed how you voted. I pointed out you sided with those who opposed regions having a voice or power with your hostility to SNP/Scotland/Sturgeon whilst bemoaning the lack of voice or power for other regions. Strong regional power, devolved power, representation, these are the keys to unlocking regional wealth disparity.

In the US, States have a big say in trade deals and also a deciding say at federal level via Congress. In Europe some countries have regional Parliaments as well as national Parliaments voting on them. This protects people at a local level and why in Europe wealth is more evenly distributed. In the U.K. we vote for the opposite and then wonder why there is a huge gulf between London and the rest of England. This is partly because we are wedded to the strong man principle of Govt and react with horror when executive power is checked by a hung Parliament or challenged by the Scottish Govt.

You assume i sided with a political party or those in power. You are wrong I dont, therefore your entire argument is spurious. Dont worry I dont expect an apology.

 

[Coatigan]

Thanks for your responses , a good little debate. Have a good Christmas.

Likewise. I say that without a hint of irony, for clarity.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

We have treated NI different due to circumstances beyond our control, it’s not favouritism by choice. I could flip this argument about treating countries within the union separately but you would run for the hills. I would have put a border up in Ireland but you know they have their ‘problems’ so there you go. England wales and Scotland are all being treated the same.

Self determination is important so anyone can leave if respecting a democratic vote is too much to live with.

A hard border between Ireland and NI (and the rest of the UK) affect Southern Ireland more than it affects the UK, although the local economies of places like Holyhead would take a bit of a hammering as it would stop swathes of Irish day trippers coming to the UK to stock up on cheap goods.

 

[Coatigan]

When we voted on whether or not to leave the EU, we voted as one Great Britain and NI. This was made clear time and time again. Every vote carried the same weight regardless of where the voter happened to reside. Perfectly possible that we would have voted Remain with the balance tipped by the majority of people in Scotland voting that way. What you seem to be suggesting is that the people of Scotland be given a veto, but if that had happened the shit would really have hit the fan with the majority being kept in the EU against it's will. This would have eventually led to a huge constitutional crisis anyway, so the only reasonable outcome is for the country to leave as was decided in the referendum and the people of Scotland then decide whether they still want to remain part of the UK or not. In my opinion, the case for independence becomes a lot more difficult once the UK is out of the EU and this is the real reason for Sturgeon's desperation.

Pretty much. Already said all this myself. I acknowledge every point you make. But for me, the point remains, if the union is truly equal, then so are it's parts.

I wasn't referring to just the referendum vote btw, but the process thereafter. She made multiple offers (including cross party cooperation, which May finally only accepted after the third attempt at her deal).

 

[BobKowalski]

You assume i sided with a political party or those in power. You are wrong I dont, therefore your entire argument is spurious. Dont worry I dont expect an apology.

I assume you sided with those who are hostile to the SNP exercising their power and leverage. I assumed this because of your evident hostility in this thread. I pointed out the bankruptcy of this hostility given your support for less regional wealth disparity.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

it would stop swathes of Irish day trippers coming to the UK to stock up on cheap goods.

Wait, what?

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

There are stark differences in some peoples opinion on the UK being allowed to leave the European Union, and their opinion on Scotland leaving the UK/GB/Union. Its "almost" hypocritical.