Shamima Begum

[Metal Biker]

She absolutely was a victim of child sex trafficking when she was 15.

That doesn't give her a free pass to do whatever for the rest of her life or the rest of her time in ISIS, although it obviously can condition some of it.

The world is not black and white. She was a victim, she might also have committed some heinous crimes that she will have to face the consequences of when tried.

She was not a victim. The victims of the regime she supported and lived happily under (her words) are the victims and they seek justice.

They should receive it and not have people like you blindly ignore her actions by inventing a victimhood status that does not reflect the reality of her situation.

 

[Metal Biker]

What is your point? That because venables killed someone as a child the age of majority and consent shouldn't exist?

I dont see how Venables is relevant at all to whether a 15 year old can consent to being a sexual reward and married off to an adult.

That age is not a factor when it comes to whether a human being is capable of committing acts of evil. She and her friends supported evil, thought nothing of seeing people tortured, murdered or raped and shows no remorse now. Who consents to being murdered!?

Yours is a fundamentally naive position.

 

[Metal Biker]

If you say so, you feel very strongly about this but ascribe motivations and meanings to me that I haven't expressed.

I feel strongly about seeing her brought to justice for the sake of all those who suffered at the hands of those she supported and professed to 'love', by those who were directly affected by them. Begum's fate rests in the hands of the Kurds, not us.

You have expressed your deep concern about her, though.

 

[domalino]

That age is not a factor when it comes to whether a human being is capable of committing acts of evil. She and her friends supported evil, thought nothing of seeing people tortured, murdered or raped and shows no remorse now.

Yours is a fundamentally naive position.

So you think a 15 year old can consent to being married and having sex with a 25 year old?

We have an age of consent in this country for a reason, and an age of majority.

If you think neither should exist, I'm not sure its worth carrying on this debate.


I think more likely is you know why these things exist, but are so ignorantly set on having a black and white view of this woman that you cannot accept that she might be a victim of crime as well as an accessory or pepertrator of it.

 

[Metal Biker]

So you think a 15 year old can consent to being married and having sex with a 25 year old?

We have an age of consent in this country for a reason, and an age of majority.

If you think neither should exist, I'm not sure its worth carrying on this debate.


I think more likely is you know why these things exist, but are so ignorantly set on having a black and white view of this woman that you cannot accept that she might be a victim of crime as well as an accessory or pepertrator of it.

According to the article posted by Zen, the view is that she did, yes. She was a 'horny, Muslim teenage girl who wanted sex with other Muslim boys in a Muslim society". We do indeed have an age of consent in this country; she was 15 years and 6 months when she left the UK. She was 16 when she got married. Your other point is ludicrous and has nothing to do with the debate whatsoever.

I don't have a black and white view, I share the same view as our Home Office, MI5 and security measures. She poses a risk if she were ever to arrive in the UK, she has shown no remorse for her actions, she is a 21 year old woman who has had time to reflect on what she did and has not changed her view.

Why is it so important to you that she comes to the UK? She's not a victim of crime she was complicit in one so huge it devastated an entire community that you keep ignoring. Groomed, not groomed she WAS complicit once she arrived in Syria but you dismiss those actions. She states HERSELF that she was not groomed, that she went willingly and was not forced into doing anything she didn't like. She thinks the Manchester Bombing was justified. This is not a decent person worthy of your compassion.

You're right though, there is no point having a debate with you. You're too close minded to also consider that maybe, just maybe, she did these things willingly and that when she arrived in IS she thought she'd won life's lottery. In fact you completely and utterly refuse to have that debate. I could accept she was groomed... if she hadn't already herself confessed that she wasn't.

 

[domalino]

We do indeed have an age of consent in this country; she was 15 years and 6 months when she left the UK. She was 16 when she got married.

I dont know where you got this, but its not true.

She was married 10 days after arriving. When she was 15.

 

[Metal Biker]

I dont know where you got this, but its not true.

She was married 10 days after arriving. When she was 15.

Yeah you're not interested in having a debate, are you.

 

[domalino]

Yeah you're not interested in having a debate, are you.

Well you just invented something to make yourself feel better about a child being married off and raped, so not really.

 

[Metal Biker]

Well you just invented something to make yourself feel better about a child being married off and raped, so not really.

Didn't "invent", the source stated she was married at 16.

Funny though, that you accept that fact but ignore the fact she says she wasn't groomed, did things willingly, does not regret her actions, yet you don't believe you're inventing something about her to justify her as a victim. Wasn't raped, got married willingly, wanted to have children.

Interesting that you invented a different narrative, isn't it. :)

 

[KPXBLN]

What is your point? That because venables killed someone as a child the age of majority and consent shouldn't exist?

I dont see how Venables is relevant at all to whether a 15 year old can consent to being a sexual reward and married off to an adult.

As you rightly say, Venables is not relevant... but it's interesting that he doesn't mention that Thompson was also 10. And he hasn't reoffended. It's almost as if people aren't defined forever by the heinous things they may do as children.