Shamima Begum

Mëtal Bikër said:
just maybe, she did these things willingly and that when she arrived in IS she thought she'd won life's lottery.
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I am sure she did think that and do whatever she supposed to have done, at that time.

What you are doing is taking an absolutist approach that people can not change as they develop.

I was very different at 15 to what i was at 21 and i am very different now to what i was at 21.

You are basing your thoughts on her at 15 and at 15 we know people are not fully developed, we know as Zen showed that emotion is a greater driver than reason.

Nobody i have seen is saying were actions are justified in anyway at all, but your absolutist approach means those actions taken whilst she was 15 are to be taken for life.

Would showing compassion and understanding towards her not show redemption is possible and in fact turn others from the path she followed, or would heavily punishing her just push more immature emotional young girls towards the path she followed.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
I feel strongly about seeing her brought to justice for the sake of all those who suffered at the hands of those she supported and professed to 'love', by those who were directly affected by them. Begum's fate rests in the hands of the Kurds, not us.

You have expressed your deep concern about her, though.
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No I haven’t. You have expressed your hatred of her, I’ve taken a position that tries to understand there might be more context to her actions than her being a ****. We’re miles apart and I’ll leave it there with you
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Why are you asking others to explain why they believe she is a security risk? Because the appropriate government and security bodies have analysed and recommended that she is. Your counter is a blogger and a BBC article. Your opposing view is flawed beyond measure.

I also don't remember Nawaz voluntarily going to join the Islamic State, being okay with seeing beheaded innocents, women raped and sold as sex slaves and then once caught showing zero remorse for her actions, being complicit even when given the opportunity to show remorse.

Why is this person so important to you that she be in the UK? Where is the justification for bringing her to the UK to face trial for a crime you and others say she didn't even commit because she was a groomed child who didn't know any better? Your logic is all over the place.
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Actually, the "counter" is the second highest court in the land which said she should be allowed to return to make her appeal.
 
KPXBLN said:
As you rightly say, Venables is not relevant... but it's interesting that he doesn't mention that Thompson was also 10. And he hasn't reoffended. It's almost as if people aren't defined forever by the heinous things they may do as children.
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It's also as if when people say "I wasn't groomed, I don't regret my actions, I did these things willingly", some people will ignore those testimonies because it goes against what they want to believe about the person.
 
Rascal said:
I am sure she did think that and do whatever she supposed to have done, at that time.

What you are doing is taking an absolutist approach that people can not change as they develop.

I was very different at 15 to what i was at 21 and i am very different now to what i was at 21.

You are basing your thoughts on her at 15 and at 15 we know people are not fully developed, we know as Zen showed that emotion is a greater driver than reason.

Nobody i have seen is saying were actions are justified in anyway at all, but your absolutist approach means those actions taken whilst she was 15 are to be taken for life.

Would showing compassion and understanding towards her not show redemption is possible and in fact turn others from the path she followed, or would heavily punishing her just push more immature emotional young girls towards the path she followed.
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Some people can, she has shown no willingness to do so. The Home Office and MI5 also agree this to be the case.

People are justifying her actions when they say she was 'groomed' and that she 'didn't know what she was doing'. She wasn't. She either was groomed, and therefore didn't commit a crime and has no reason to be returned because now as an adult she DID confess to committing crimes in Syria and must therefore face trial there, OR she WASN'T groomed, but hasn't committed any crimes in Syria but was complicit and has shown no remorse for her actions since, indicating she's a terror threat.

Why people keep ignoring the fact that Shamima has confessed she was complicit, rejected her UK citizenship status and wasn't groomed into doing any of it, only suggests there is another agenda at play by people on here. I seek that the Kurds and Yazidis get their justice; the issue of Begum is no longer our concern.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
So was Robert Thomson.

Youth is wasted on the young. A civilised society gives young people who makes mistakes another chance, even when they become adults. If they don't grasp it, like Venables, then they deserve to be further punished.
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Ahh, so in your view Begum is more of the Thompson mindset than the Venables one. She can be saved!
MI5 and the Home Office disagree.

But still, nobody in here is trying to justify what she did...
 
domalino said:
15 year old children can't consent to having sex and bearing children with 20+ year old men you fucking creep.
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Did I even say that? I said she confessed in an interview that she didn't regret having children. Give your head a serious wobble.
 
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