Shay Given to Arsenal (merged)

[Spindash]

Re: we've agreed to let Shay Given join Arsenal

It takes more than a season at a mid table club and being behind Green and calamity James in the English team to say he's a top class keeper. He's potential, but as many potentially good English keepers like Foster, who have a false dawn, they fade away. I'll wait maybe 12 seasons before I compare his contribution to football to Given's.
But as he's English, ah sure he's the best keeper in the world. FFS. And I'm bias.

Not surprised in the slightest that you've decided to bring nationality into it.

Hart is just as good as Given now. By the end of this season he'll be better. Nothing to do with him being English, no matter how much you want it to be.

 

[IrishMacca]

Re: we've agreed to let Shay Given join Arsenal

Given is currently better than Hart but Hart has the potential to be a better a keeper and be our and England's #1 for years to come, the only way Hart will reach that potential and overtake Given is by playing every week.

No disrespect to Given though, who is one of the all time Premier League greats and is without doubt one of the best in Europe.

Hart wins imo, and Mancini made the best decision of his short reign so far by deciding to go with him, ask yourself this, which club has ever won major honours and dominated without a 6'3+ beast in net?.

Given's height, or Joes for that matter has nothing to do with whether we succeed or not, it did not hold Newcastle, Ireland and it certainly didn't hold us back last season getting 5th or the season before hand.

Hart starts, why? Because he's potentially a good English player, hell that's why the majority of ye want him to start, and it's clear Mancini thinks the same way.

Not because he's better than Given, but because he's young and English. Must be
hard to stomach such bias for Given. It's one thing to be dropped for something you can fight, but he can't change the fact that he's a 34 year old Irish player, and well, that's not near enough attractive for this City team.

But you answer me this, which club has ever won major honours and dominated with a keeper under the age of 25?
There is a bloody good reason why all the top teams in the world have keepers around 30 years old in their nets. If Hart wasn't English there would be absolutely no way we'd start him if we were serious about wanting to actually win something and compete.
It's more than a coincidence that all the top class keepers in the world are of an average age of 30.

 

[mancincali]

Re: we've agreed to let Shay Given join Arsenal

Footballers are so fickle. I can't believe because he will only be playing half of our games (at best) he decides to fuck off. Unbelievable. No love for city.

Pray that Hart doesn't get injured.

EDIT: I understand all the racial tension between irish and english, however if someone claims that city are selecting Hart over Given because of nationality, it only reflects their own racist tendacies.

 

[IrishMacca]

Re: we've agreed to let Shay Given join Arsenal

Footballers are so fickle. I can't believe because he will only be playing half of our games (at best) he decides to fuck off. Unbelievable. No love for city.

Pray that Hart doesn't get injured.

The odd Europa game isn't exactly something to get excited about. It's not half the games, it's the odd few.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Re: we've agreed to let Shay Given join Arsenal

Wenger said he wasn't signing Given or Hart and made no comment on Schwarzer, who apparently handed a transfer request in at Fulham.

That's what I'm believing until an official outlet tells me otherwise.

Lol at believing Wenger, you clearly don’t know our great manager. This is the man that denied when Rafa said we made a bid for Chamakh, but he choose Arsenal, all I can say is congratulation to Arsenal for getting a good player. Wenger was like rafa is responsible for what he says, I don’t know what he’s talking about. He’s never gonna admit a player he’s after

Not really, I'd rather believe him that some guy spouting an unsourced rumour on here...besides the Schwarzer stuff seems a bit strange for nothing to be going on.

 

[mr t]

Re: we've agreed to let Shay Given join Arsenal

The important thing is they must pay.

Arsenal never pay much for anybody so don't hold your breath.

 

[Citizen Green]

Re: we've agreed to let Shay Given join Arsenal

Given is currently better than Hart but Hart has the potential to be a better a keeper and be our and England's #1 for years to come, the only way Hart will reach that potential and overtake Given is by playing every week.

No disrespect to Given though, who is one of the all time Premier League greats and is without doubt one of the best in Europe.

Hart wins imo, and Mancini made the best decision of his short reign so far by deciding to go with him, ask yourself this, which club has ever won major honours and dominated without a 6'3+ beast in net?.

Given's height, or Joes for that matter has nothing to do with whether we succeed or not, it did not hold Newcastle, Ireland and it certainly didn't hold us back last season getting 5th or the season before hand.

Hart starts, why? Because he's potentially a good English player, hell that's why the majority of ye want him to start, and it's clear Mancini thinks the same way.

Not because he's better than Given, but because he's young and English. Must be
hard to stomach such bias for Given. It's one thing to be dropped for something you can fight, but he can't change the fact that he's a 34 year old Irish player, and well, that's not near enough attractive for this City team.

But you answer me this, which club has ever won major honours and dominated with a keeper under the age of 25?
There is a bloody good reason why all the top teams in the world have keepers around 30 years old in their nets. If Hart wasn't English there would be absolutely no way we'd start him if we were serious about wanting to actually win something and compete.
It's more than a coincidence that all the top class keepers in the world are of an average age of 30.

Theres a reason why so many defensive partnerships have failed at Newcastle with Given behind them, that's because he fails to come of his line, and is awful at commanding his box from set-pieces and has pore communication, always has been and always will be.

This was also the case at City last season when Kolo looked worried and shaky as did Lescott at times, City were one of the higest conceding sides in the top half of the league last season. With Hart in net, Kolo looked brilliant, full of confidence and looked quality alongside Vincent. Hart also COMMANDED his box for the full 90 minutes, spoke with his defenders and made it difficult for the Spurs players to get on the end of crosses, he was also off his line rapidly to deny Defoe with two brilliant saves.

Hart is practicably already as good as Given and will be much better within a year, it's got nothing to do with England, it's more about you defending Given simply because he's Ireland's number one.

As i've already said though, Given is also a very good keeper.<br /><br />-- Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:21 am --<br /><br />

Given's height, or Joes for that matter has nothing to do with whether we succeed or not, it did not hold Newcastle, Ireland and it certainly didn't hold us back last season getting 5th or the season before hand.

Hart starts, why? Because he's potentially a good English player, hell that's why the majority of ye want him to start, and it's clear Mancini thinks the same way.

Not because he's better than Given, but because he's young and English. Must be
hard to stomach such bias for Given. It's one thing to be dropped for something you can fight, but he can't change the fact that he's a 34 year old Irish player, and well, that's not near enough attractive for this City team.

But you answer me this, which club has ever won major honours and dominated with a keeper under the age of 25?
There is a bloody good reason why all the top teams in the world have keepers around 30 years old in their nets. If Hart wasn't English there would be absolutely no way we'd start him if we were serious about wanting to actually win something and compete.
It's more than a coincidence that all the top class keepers in the world are of an average age of 30.

Theres a reason why so many defensive partnerships have failed at Newcastle with Given behind them, that's because he fails to come of his line, and is awful at commanding his box from set-pieces and has pore communication, always has been and always will be.

This was also the case at City last season when Kolo looked worried and shaky as did Lescott at times, City were one of the higest conceding sides in the top half of the league last season. With Hart in net, Kolo looked brilliant, full of confidence and looked quality alongside Vincent. Hart also COMMANDED his box for the full 90 minutes, spoke with his defenders and made it difficult for the Spurs players to get on the end of crosses, he was also off his line rapidly to deny Defoe with two brilliant saves.

Hart is practicably already as good as Given and will be much better within a year, it's got nothing to do with England, it's more about you defending Given simply because he's Ireland's number one.

As i've already said though, Given is also a very good keeper.

Oh and to answer your question about what clubs have won lots with keepers under 25, here's some for you, Shilton at Nottingham Forest, Khan at Bayern Munich and Schmeichel at United to name a few.

 

[IrishMacca]

Re: we've agreed to let Shay Given join Arsenal

Given's height, or Joes for that matter has nothing to do with whether we succeed or not, it did not hold Newcastle, Ireland and it certainly didn't hold us back last season getting 5th or the season before hand.

Hart starts, why? Because he's potentially a good English player, hell that's why the majority of ye want him to start, and it's clear Mancini thinks the same way.

Not because he's better than Given, but because he's young and English. Must be
hard to stomach such bias for Given. It's one thing to be dropped for something you can fight, but he can't change the fact that he's a 34 year old Irish player, and well, that's not near enough attractive for this City team.

But you answer me this, which club has ever won major honours and dominated with a keeper under the age of 25?
There is a bloody good reason why all the top teams in the world have keepers around 30 years old in their nets. If Hart wasn't English there would be absolutely no way we'd start him if we were serious about wanting to actually win something and compete.
It's more than a coincidence that all the top class keepers in the world are of an average age of 30.

Theres a reason why so many defensive partnerships have failed at Newcastle with Given behind them, that's because he fails to come of his line, and is awful at commanding his box from set-pieces and has pore communication, always has been and always will be.

This was also the case at City last season when Kolo looked worried and shaky as did Lescott at times, City were one of the higest conceding sides in the top half of the league last season. With Hart in net, Kolo looked brilliant, full of confidence and looked quality alongside Vincent. Hart also COMMANDED his box for the full 90 minutes, spoke with his defenders and made it difficult for the Spurs players to get on the end of crosses, he was also off his line rapidly to deny Defoe with two brilliant saves.

Hart is practicably already as good as Given and will be much better within a year, it's got nothing to do with England, it's more about you defending Given simply because he's Ireland's number one.

As i've already said though, Given is also a very good keeper.

Yes Given is the reason why Newcastle defernders were useless, I just knew Bramble was a world class player. Ya God Harper must have been just awful at it because they were relegated with him in goals.
Given seems pretty bloody loud to me any time I've sat behind the goal he's been in, but I guess you've to be there to hear him. But you can shout at a player all day long it doesn't mean they'll listen.
Given is also now responsible for a players form but Kolo has one good game an entire season later and it's all down to Hart. Give me a fuckin break. And ye call me bias.

 

[nomorethaksintimes]

Re: we've agreed to let Shay Given join Arsenal

Footballers are so fickle. I can't believe because he will only be playing half of our games (at best) he decides to fuck off. Unbelievable. No love for city.

Pray that Hart doesn't get injured.

EDIT: I understand all the racial tension between irish and english, however if someone claims that city are selecting Hart over Given because of nationality, it only reflects their own racist tendacies.

I don't think wanting out when you had a perfectly good season previously makes Given fickle - especially as he'll be on less money anywhere else.

As for Irish Macca/Leighton's comments I do think there's a bit of truth in what you say regarding the reactions of some on here. However, you both can't deny Given's command of his area and distribution are two (relative) weaknesses which I don't see in Van der Sar's/Reina's/Schwarzer's etc games. I understand your frustration at watching Hart make saves at Spurs which Given could very well have made and many fans subsequently writing off Given now but for me it was the way Hart came way out for crosses and took them or got a very strong hand to them (like Reina does) which impressed me most. Even though his distribution was sometimes risky it was refreshing to see him taking personal responsibility for launching counter-attacks and not just knocking it long to Tevez all the time.

Personally I think Hart has come on leaps and bounds in the past year and whilst Given is undoubtedly top-drawer, he ain't going to get any better and deficiencies in his game will remain. You both seem to be saying the English media has won by getting a young lad regular games at the expense of an excellent keeper. But if Hart is going to be a top-class keeper (who are ridiculously few and far between) he needs games now for CITY's benefit. The likes of Cassilas and Buffon have pretty much maintained a standard they reached in their mid twenties and maybe they wouldn't have turned out the same if they hadn't been blooded at the juncture Hart now finds himself at.

Mancini has made the right call and shouldn't be held responsible for having to deal with two GKs who are clearly too good to be competing with each other. There is clearly a great deal of mutual respect between the two and during their recent 'outburts' it is clear neither is comfortable with the other playing second-fiddle to them.

 

[IrishMacca]

Re: we've agreed to let Shay Given join Arsenal

Given's height, or Joes for that matter has nothing to do with whether we succeed or not, it did not hold Newcastle, Ireland and it certainly didn't hold us back last season getting 5th or the season before hand.

Hart starts, why? Because he's potentially a good English player, hell that's why the majority of ye want him to start, and it's clear Mancini thinks the same way.

Not because he's better than Given, but because he's young and English. Must be
hard to stomach such bias for Given. It's one thing to be dropped for something you can fight, but he can't change the fact that he's a 34 year old Irish player, and well, that's not near enough attractive for this City team.

But you answer me this, which club has ever won major honours and dominated with a keeper under the age of 25?
There is a bloody good reason why all the top teams in the world have keepers around 30 years old in their nets. If Hart wasn't English there would be absolutely no way we'd start him if we were serious about wanting to actually win something and compete.
It's more than a coincidence that all the top class keepers in the world are of an average age of 30.

Theres a reason why so many defensive partnerships have failed at Newcastle with Given behind them, that's because he fails to come of his line, and is awful at commanding his box from set-pieces and has pore communication, always has been and always will be.

This was also the case at City last season when Kolo looked worried and shaky as did Lescott at times, City were one of the higest conceding sides in the top half of the league last season. With Hart in net, Kolo looked brilliant, full of confidence and looked quality alongside Vincent. Hart also COMMANDED his box for the full 90 minutes, spoke with his defenders and made it difficult for the Spurs players to get on the end of crosses, he was also off his line rapidly to deny Defoe with two brilliant saves.

Hart is practicably already as good as Given and will be much better within a year, it's got nothing to do with England, it's more about you defending Given simply because he's Ireland's number one.

As i've already said though, Given is also a very good keeper.

-- Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:21 am --

Theres a reason why so many defensive partnerships have failed at Newcastle with Given behind them, that's because he fails to come of his line, and is awful at commanding his box from set-pieces and has pore communication, always has been and always will be.

This was also the case at City last season when Kolo looked worried and shaky as did Lescott at times, City were one of the higest conceding sides in the top half of the league last season. With Hart in net, Kolo looked brilliant, full of confidence and looked quality alongside Vincent. Hart also COMMANDED his box for the full 90 minutes, spoke with his defenders and made it difficult for the Spurs players to get on the end of crosses, he was also off his line rapidly to deny Defoe with two brilliant saves.

Hart is practicably already as good as Given and will be much better within a year, it's got nothing to do with England, it's more about you defending Given simply because he's Ireland's number one.

As i've already said though, Given is also a very good keeper.

Oh and to answer your question about what clubs have won lots with keepers under 25, here's some for you, Shilton at Nottingham Forest, Khan at Bayern Munich and Schmeichel at United to name a few.

But NOW, this decade. Look at the ages of all the top class teams. Buffon, VDS..etc. No club with any serious ambition to compete has an inexperienced kid in goals, when every one else has experienced top class keepers, which Given is, that said, with the FA, Capello and the English press in your ear. It must be hard to ignore and worth putting what we could have won this season on the line.