Shay Given to Arsenal (merged)

[kiiiki]

Re: we've agreed to let Shay Given join Arsenal

Lol at believing Wenger, you clearly don’t know our great manager. This is the man that denied when Rafa said we made a bid for Chamakh, but he choose Arsenal, all I can say is congratulation to Arsenal for getting a good player. Wenger was like rafa is responsible for what he says, I don’t know what he’s talking about. He’s never gonna admit a player he’s after

Not really, I'd rather believe him that some guy spouting an unsourced rumour on here...besides the Schwarzer stuff seems a bit strange for nothing to be going on.

I agree, the fact that Schwarzer hands in a transfer request and say openly I want to join Arsenal, makes me believe this Given stuff is nonsense. I just cant see Schwarzer going that far if he wasn’t 100% sure we would come in for him

 

[IrishMacca]

Re: we've agreed to let Shay Given join Arsenal

Footballers are so fickle. I can't believe because he will only be playing half of our games (at best) he decides to fuck off. Unbelievable. No love for city.

Pray that Hart doesn't get injured.

EDIT: I understand all the racial tension between irish and english, however if someone claims that city are selecting Hart over Given because of nationality, it only reflects their own racist tendacies.

I don't think wanting out when you had a perfectly good season previously makes Given fickle - especially as he'll be on less money anywhere else.

As for Irish Macca/Leighton's comments I do think there's a bit of truth in what you say regarding the reactions of some on here. However, you both can't deny Given's command of his area and distribution are two (relative) weaknesses which I don't see in Van der Sar's/Reina's/Schwarzer's etc games. I understand your frustration at watching Hart make saves at Spurs which Given could very well have made and many fans subsequently writing off Given now but for me it was the way Hart came way out for crosses and took them or got a very strong hand to them (like Reina does) which impressed me most. Even though his distribution was sometimes risky it was refreshing to see him taking personal responsibility for launching counter-attacks and not just knocking it long to Tevez all the time.

Personally I think Hart has come on leaps and bounds in the past year and whilst Given is undoubtedly top-drawer, he ain't going to get any better and deficiencies in his game will remain. You both seem to be saying the English media has won by getting a young lad regular games at the expense of an excellent keeper. But if Hart is going to be a top-class keeper (who are ridiculously few and far between) he needs games now for CITY's benefit. The likes of Cassilas and Buffon have pretty much maintained a standard they reached in their mid twenties and maybe they wouldn't have turned out the same if they hadn't been blooded at the juncture Hart now finds himself at.

Mancini has made the right call and shouldn't be held responsible for having to deal with two GKs who are clearly too good to be competing with each other. There is clearly a great deal of mutual respect between the two and during their recent 'outburts' it is clear neither is comfortable with the other playing second-fiddle to them.

So fuck Given right? Who cares about the Irish lad when England's future keeper needs games.

 

[mr t]

Re: we've agreed to let Shay Given join Arsenal

I don't think Givens got a winning mentality - I said that when we signed him.

There's no doubting his ability but he's never played in a side that's won anything.

 

[IrishMacca]

Re: we've agreed to let Shay Given join Arsenal

I don't think Givens got a winning mentality - I said that when we signed him.

There's no doubting his ability but he's never played in a side that's won anything.

He's won teams games single handedly, including us..which most on here desperately need reminding of. Games where he could have lost belief and thrown in the towel, everything I've seen of him suggests that he's a winning mentality and I've been watching him a hell lot longer than ye have.

 

[1.618034]

Re: we've agreed to let Shay Given join Arsenal

I disagree. Given has only one thing over Hart and that's experience. There's only one way to get that. Hart is 3" taller and therefore has a longer reach so technically and physically Hart is superior. Hart matches Given in all areas but wipes the floor with him when it comes to collecting crosses. He's also been at the club longer than Given so if you're talking about loyalty and giving players a chance then it really is a no-brainer. But that doesn't make him a bad keeper either which is why he would walk into almost any team in the PL. He's just not Joe Hart.

What City and Given do about it is another thing...

Personally I think it's a bit rich of Given to be kicking up such a stink after, or even before the first game. He has a contract with us so should at least give it until January and see what happens... It's only because it's Arsenal that he wants away. And it's precisely for that reason that we shouldn't let it happen, cheaply.

Basically he wants to go to Arsenal more than he wants to stay and fight for his place. V poor.

Given is proven and a much better shot stopper than Hart, Hart is disorganised, inexperienced and mush weaker shot stopper than Given. You know, it seems Given, being "not a bad keeper" didn't do us too badly for the last 2 seasons. But fuck it what does that matter.

As for size? It doesn't help Green, James..etc. Hell, Roy Keane was told that he was too small to ever make it in football.
Hart kicked up much more of a fuss than Given mentionining once that he'd have to think about what would happen if he didn't start. But it seems to have slipped your mind.
Given can't change the reason he's not being picked, he's not a 23 year old English player. So why should he waste his time.

He's just not Joe Hart. You mean he's not English, Hart has had one good season and played well enough in the game on Saturday and suddenly, he's "Joe Hart" the messiah, "God" suddenly he's an all time great, and done more in his 5 mins at the club as no. 1 than Given did, who played a major role in getting us 5th last season.

Why should he stay when he can't change the reason he's being benched. He's not English, thank God, if he was, or if Hart was French or Spanish..etc. We wouldn't be having this conversation. Hart is nothing but potentional, and no other club serious about competing for the top would have a 23 year old in goal.

Why should Given stay, Mancini is obviously pleasing the English lads, which means screwing Shay over, so why should he stay, especially when clearly he isn't valued here.

I still disagree with you about who's the better keeper and with respect it's nothing to do with nationality...

But what if the shoe was on the other foot...? Then exactly the same thing would happen, other clubs would be swarming all over us for Hart but this time they'd be offering more than £15M or a loan deal. And why would that be, do you think? Because he's English? No. Because he's the more valuable keeper and therefore the one we need to keep and play.

But I'm sure you're support of Given isn't anything to do with nationality either, eh IrishMacca...?

Pot-kettle indeed.

;-)

CTID

 

[Citizen Green]

Re: we've agreed to let Shay Given join Arsenal

I don't think wanting out when you had a perfectly good season previously makes Given fickle - especially as he'll be on less money anywhere else.

As for Irish Macca/Leighton's comments I do think there's a bit of truth in what you say regarding the reactions of some on here. However, you both can't deny Given's command of his area and distribution are two (relative) weaknesses which I don't see in Van der Sar's/Reina's/Schwarzer's etc games. I understand your frustration at watching Hart make saves at Spurs which Given could very well have made and many fans subsequently writing off Given now but for me it was the way Hart came way out for crosses and took them or got a very strong hand to them (like Reina does) which impressed me most. Even though his distribution was sometimes risky it was refreshing to see him taking personal responsibility for launching counter-attacks and not just knocking it long to Tevez all the time.

Personally I think Hart has come on leaps and bounds in the past year and whilst Given is undoubtedly top-drawer, he ain't going to get any better and deficiencies in his game will remain. You both seem to be saying the English media has won by getting a young lad regular games at the expense of an excellent keeper. But if Hart is going to be a top-class keeper (who are ridiculously few and far between) he needs games now for CITY's benefit. The likes of Cassilas and Buffon have pretty much maintained a standard they reached in their mid twenties and maybe they wouldn't have turned out the same if they hadn't been blooded at the juncture Hart now finds himself at.

Mancini has made the right call and shouldn't be held responsible for having to deal with two GKs who are clearly too good to be competing with each other. There is clearly a great deal of mutual respect between the two and during their recent 'outburts' it is clear neither is comfortable with the other playing second-fiddle to them.

So fuck Given right? Who cares about the Irish lad when England's future keeper needs games.

Mate, what's the chip on your shoulder about all this England/Ireland bollocks? it's not about that, it's about City fan's opinions on who they think is best for the job in CITY'S goal not England or the ROI's.

 

[IrishMacca]

Re: we've agreed to let Shay Given join Arsenal

Given is proven and a much better shot stopper than Hart, Hart is disorganised, inexperienced and mush weaker shot stopper than Given. You know, it seems Given, being "not a bad keeper" didn't do us too badly for the last 2 seasons. But fuck it what does that matter.

As for size? It doesn't help Green, James..etc. Hell, Roy Keane was told that he was too small to ever make it in football.
Hart kicked up much more of a fuss than Given mentionining once that he'd have to think about what would happen if he didn't start. But it seems to have slipped your mind.
Given can't change the reason he's not being picked, he's not a 23 year old English player. So why should he waste his time.

He's just not Joe Hart. You mean he's not English, Hart has had one good season and played well enough in the game on Saturday and suddenly, he's "Joe Hart" the messiah, "God" suddenly he's an all time great, and done more in his 5 mins at the club as no. 1 than Given did, who played a major role in getting us 5th last season.

Why should he stay when he can't change the reason he's being benched. He's not English, thank God, if he was, or if Hart was French or Spanish..etc. We wouldn't be having this conversation. Hart is nothing but potentional, and no other club serious about competing for the top would have a 23 year old in goal.

Why should Given stay, Mancini is obviously pleasing the English lads, which means screwing Shay over, so why should he stay, especially when clearly he isn't valued here.

I still disagree with you about who's the better keeper and with respect it's nothing to do with nationality...

But what if the shoe was on the other foot...? Then exactly the same thing would happen, other clubs would be swarming all over us for Hart but this time they'd be offering more than £15M or a loan deal. And why would that be, do you think? Because he's English? No. Because he's the more valuable keeper and therefore the one we need to keep and play.

But I'm sure you're support of Given isn't anything to do with nationality either, eh IrishMacca...?

Pot-kettle indeed.

;-)

CTID

Ya that handfull of games Hart got last year really has proved him more than 12 years that Given's had.
Oh come on, you live in England I presume, I mean we get the tail end of it for Go sake.
After another embarasing world cup, what is the number one want in England, good young English players, and managers who are willing to toe the line.

 

[nomorethaksintimes]

Re: we've agreed to let Shay Given join Arsenal

I don't think wanting out when you had a perfectly good season previously makes Given fickle - especially as he'll be on less money anywhere else.

As for Irish Macca/Leighton's comments I do think there's a bit of truth in what you say regarding the reactions of some on here. However, you both can't deny Given's command of his area and distribution are two (relative) weaknesses which I don't see in Van der Sar's/Reina's/Schwarzer's etc games. I understand your frustration at watching Hart make saves at Spurs which Given could very well have made and many fans subsequently writing off Given now but for me it was the way Hart came way out for crosses and took them or got a very strong hand to them (like Reina does) which impressed me most. Even though his distribution was sometimes risky it was refreshing to see him taking personal responsibility for launching counter-attacks and not just knocking it long to Tevez all the time.

Personally I think Hart has come on leaps and bounds in the past year and whilst Given is undoubtedly top-drawer, he ain't going to get any better and deficiencies in his game will remain. You both seem to be saying the English media has won by getting a young lad regular games at the expense of an excellent keeper. But if Hart is going to be a top-class keeper (who are ridiculously few and far between) he needs games now for CITY's benefit. The likes of Cassilas and Buffon have pretty much maintained a standard they reached in their mid twenties and maybe they wouldn't have turned out the same if they hadn't been blooded at the juncture Hart now finds himself at.

Mancini has made the right call and shouldn't be held responsible for having to deal with two GKs who are clearly too good to be competing with each other. There is clearly a great deal of mutual respect between the two and during their recent 'outburts' it is clear neither is comfortable with the other playing second-fiddle to them.

So fuck Given right? Who cares about the Irish lad when England's future keeper needs games.

hmmm. You've highlighted the bit that explains why it's not all about England..."England's future keeper" needs games for club and country now for City's benefit. Personally I enjoy him playing for England but I'm not a big England fan and could take it or leave it, City comes first. If it makes it any clearer for you, if they were both English I would still be backing Hart now (although before you say it, I agree if Given was English he'd be on a par with Casillas in the media's eyes and would have a bit more support on here).

 

[Spindash]

Re: we've agreed to let Shay Given join Arsenal

He's just not Joe Hart. You mean he's not English, Hart has had one good season and played well enough in the game on Saturday and suddenly, he's "Joe Hart" the messiah, "God" suddenly he's an all time great, and done more in his 5 mins at the club as no. 1 than Given did, who played a major role in getting us 5th last season.

Hart has played more games for City than Given (67 to 60), so that's also wrong.

 

[zeven]

Re: we've agreed to let Shay Given join Arsenal

Theres a reason why so many defensive partnerships have failed at Newcastle with Given behind them, that's because he fails to come of his line, and is awful at commanding his box from set-pieces and has pore communication, always has been and always will be.

This was also the case at City last season when Kolo looked worried and shaky as did Lescott at times, City were one of the higest conceding sides in the top half of the league last season. With Hart in net, Kolo looked brilliant, full of confidence and looked quality alongside Vincent. Hart also COMMANDED his box for the full 90 minutes, spoke with his defenders and made it difficult for the Spurs players to get on the end of crosses, he was also off his line rapidly to deny Defoe with two brilliant saves.

Hart is practicably already as good as Given and will be much better within a year, it's got nothing to do with England, it's more about you defending Given simply because he's Ireland's number one.

As i've already said though, Given is also a very good keeper.

-- Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:21 am --



Oh and to answer your question about what clubs have won lots with keepers under 25, here's some for you, Shilton at Nottingham Forest, Khan at Bayern Munich and Schmeichel at United to name a few.

But NOW, this decade. Look at the ages of all the top class teams. Buffon, VDS..etc. No club with any serious ambition to compete has an inexperienced kid in goals, when every one else has experienced top class keepers, which Given is, that said, with the FA, Capello and the English press in your ear. It must be hard to ignore and worth putting what we could have won this season on the line.

exactly soon those guys are retiring, and we have one of the best for the next 15 years.