Shooting at Mandalay Bay Resort (Las Vegas)

[squirtyflower]

What a brilliant opening to Newsnight by Andrew Neil about the stupidity of gun ownership and lack of control in America

Since 1968 more Americans have died from being gunned down in America than any Americans losing their life in every war America have fought, frightening really.

 

[TCIB]

The nasty word when debating the second amendment is "allegory" which is a position of interpretation. It is often used disingenuously as a way to give a veil of legitimacy to the person or side promoting the less reasonable opinion, an obfuscation tactic. Personally i despise it as in inhibits useful debate given the context of it's use.

Warning: Bit of my own personal ramblings below.

Amazingly with the people like our blue is debating with on twitter who replies with such nonsensical rubbish as "when it happened in the uk you did not ban cars did you" it is hard to work on a level you can both mutually recognize. It is very difficult to marshal your words to debate with someone like that partially due to them using tactics like above with allegory.

Then you are pushed back to reasoning, can i even reach and reason with this person on any level? Now when you think dogs, pigs, dolphin, gorillas all have documented cases of mutual understanding with humans where actions benefit both. I am not talking about symbiotic relations here but deep understanding on a an individual personal level, a random event etc. This makes me look at some of the "not listening, love my gun" brigade with disdain. Open your bastard eyes and let go of your pissing ego you sack of shit.Most are not like this however.
I loved shooting when in the USA but accept now that due to a few fucking loons it is something i can't really enjoy. If i were still there and it all got banned i would be gutted for about an hour then go make a burger or something.

Why can't other people be so reasoned and logical ffs, it is simple to me. Do these people not care for the greater good, for humanity as a whole?

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Do you think an AR-16 is a useful tool for self defence in the home?

I'm sure you mean AR-15, and the answer to "useful" is yes. Is it the best tool? No. Shotgun is, by far, #1, with handgun #2.

There are plenty of alternatives to an AR-15, but you are being led by the nose here. It is all semantics and perceptions. The AR-15 is a semi-automatic weapon, just like a Glock handgun. The difference is a long barrel and ammunition size. Therein lies the big problem with legislation on guns. The Supreme Court has held that people have the right to defend their home and family with (a) gun(s), and the semi-automatic weapon is the standard gun of the late 20th and early 21st century.

 

[bluethrunthru]

I see Congress is considering legalising silencers - for reasons of ear protection - seems if they are allowed silencers they can blaze away at a range and not damage anyone's hearing.........I say just leave them to killing each other - they won't listen and they won't fucking learn.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

What a silly reply. You know full well that you (as the gun owner) are more likely to die if you’re carrying than not:



So whilst you can point to one story here or one story there, the metadata suggests it’s simply not true on the whole.

I could tell you of all the times I’ve driven whilst over the limit and say I’m fine and I’m just better than the rest but you’d be right in thinking I’m talking bullocks and that the data would suggest I put myself and other road users at greater risk doing so.

I would say that there is so much more to the data than you bring to the table that we can't discuss it. Training, type of gun, storage, children in the home, where it is carried (if carried outside the home), etc, etc, etc... You don't know me or any of the above, so your assertion is...quite literally... bollocks! Metadata is just that...which makes it bollocks for specific conclusions, especially personal conclusions.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Not even the same ball game

You would be surprised, but then you don't live here and I'm not interested in doing your research.

Remember, this is a very PERSONAL decision for people, because it is THEIR LIFE under threat when it happens. We will have to agree to disagree, but please don't think that I'm all for everyone being Yosemite Sam!

 

[The Fat el Hombre]

Vile country populated by deluded gun toting brainwashed idiots. Sick of hearing about the fucking shit hole. Room 101 the fucker

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Therein lies the big problem with legislation on guns. The Supreme Court has held that people have the right to defend their home and family with (a) gun(s), and the semi-automatic weapon is the standard gun of the late 20th and early 21st century.

And yet their legitimacy is governed by a law devised in the late eighteenth century. Therein lies another big problem with legislation on guns.

 

[TCIB]

And yet their legitimacy is governed by a law devised in the late eighteenth century. Therein lies another big problem with legislation on guns.

Thus allowing for allegorical based obfuscation. No different to the bible and it's proponents for all intents and purposes.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

No wonder there's so much arguing about this 200 years later; it doesn't make any sense. Were they all pissed at the time?

There have been entire papers written on the commas in that sentence! I know...!