Spiritulists........yay or nay?

[OurCity]

Well, I've had this conversation before and I visited many of them over the years and they've all failed. Mainly because I've read the books on cold reading too so know their tricks and how to answer their questions.

Anything that says "you must believe in it for it to work" is already placed in my file of "things that are probably nonsense"

But if a medium told you a personal fact about your past, then that's not a question of faith. It's either true or it isn't and if it's true, then what? Do you deny it, or think it's some kind of Derren Brown mind trick? You've probably not been lucky enough to see one of the small percentage of genuine mediums.

Genuine mediums don't exist. It's a contradiction in terms.

And you seem to forget Occam's Razor. If a medium did tell me a fact about my past, I'd presume that they looked me up rather than taking the almighty logical leap to the idea that they can speak to dead people. This is exactly what I mean by social conditioning. If I told you a fact about your past, would you think that I could speak to dead people? No. The only reason that you think that is because the person doing it suggested it.

Sorry but that is hogwash. I'm not talking about a piece of general info, I've stressed a couple of times that I mean something specific, private/personal, something that you have not discussed with anyone or given any clues about. There must be something from your past that you would be shocked to hear someone mention whether you consider them a medium or not. Especially if they don't know you from Adam and have not had a chance to find out anything about you.

Unless you experience it then no doubt you'll always feel the same.

 

[stonerblue]

More than likely, I've been watching Derren for as long as he's been on the tele. When I watch now, me and the mrs hit pase on Sky + and generally know what the answer will be before he says it as you can pick up on the points he has panted etc.

and they say romance is dead..

I didn't set the scene very well, we usually do it whilst sat in an old broze bath, filled with red rose petals in front of roaring open fire, in between reading each other sonnets we have written for each other that day.

schmoove..

 

[SWP's back]

and they say romance is dead..

I didn't set the scene very well, we usually do it whilst sat in an old broze bath, filled with red rose petals in front of roaring open fire, in between reading each other sonnets we have written for each other that day.

schmoove..

until she farts...

 

[Aphex]

My mum is into spiritual things, so much so she went to a couple of nights at this spiritual place near us

She said it was ok at first but went more cult like after 3 visits

I know I live in the Oldham area, but that's got nothing to do with it.

 

[Damocles]

Sorry but that is hogwash. I'm not talking about a piece of general info, I've stressed a couple of times that I mean something specific, private/personal, something that you have not discussed with anyone or given any clues about. There must be something from your past that you would be shocked to hear someone mention whether you consider them a medium or not. Especially if they don't know you from Adam and have not had a chance to find out anything about you.

Unless you experience it then no doubt you'll always feel the same.

It's a very simple and real phenomena called selective validation. Firstly, you absolutely definitely did not hear something that specific that you have never told anyone, Here's the crucial thing though you absolutely believe that you did. You've tricked yourself (or more to the point, the medium has tricked you) into thinking that you've heard something that you haven't or that you haven't said something that you have.

I'll give you an example. A favourite one that they like to use that seems personal but actually isn't structures the question around things like "a childhood accident involving water". Now, look at what I've just actually said. Nothing. A childhood accident involving water could mean absolutely anything at all, from slipping at the swimming baths to some kid you know drowning in the sea and everything in between. The medium often asks questions such as "is this making sense to you?" or "is this linking anywhere in your life?"
From here, you then provide the information that they need. You actually tell them how it links into your life, they jump on this information and flesh it out using some common sense. If it doesn't link into your life, they change the question to sound a bit like the original but it is actually a completely different question. "No? This doesn't link in? You can't think of a family member or a friend who had a water accident when they were a child?" It's a subtle change from "did YOU do X" to "did anyone you know do X".
If they have what's called a wide miss in their terminology - that is, something that the client didn't respond to at all, they use avoidance techniques. Some claim that they aren't 100% accurate because it doesn't work that way (do dead people get their memories wrong?), some claim that it was a mix up and they just meant a choking accident rather than a water accident, and some even have the cheek to basically blame you by saying "well, go home and think about that and let me know if you work it out", like it's somehow your fault.

The point is, you can actually tape your readings then listen to them at a later date and your memory of what said is completely different to what was actually said and by whom. This is how they get away with it, people exaggerate the things that they got right and then completely ignore the things that they got wrong.

And yes, I'm going to have a hundred people jumping at me about how this is true but their "special medium" is different and they definitely didn't get fooled and these people are genuine. It's just not true, you got fooled and didn't realise it. Even your special medium. I'm sorry if you find it unbelievable that a person trained in fooling other people could somehow have gotten one over on you but it is what it is.

 

[ElanJo]

But if a medium told you a personal fact about your past, then that's not a question of faith. It's either true or it isn't and if it's true, then what? Do you deny it, or think it's some kind of Derren Brown mind trick? You've probably not been lucky enough to see one of the small percentage of genuine mediums.

Genuine mediums don't exist. It's a contradiction in terms.

And you seem to forget Occam's Razor. If a medium did tell me a fact about my past, I'd presume that they looked me up rather than taking the almighty logical leap to the idea that they can speak to dead people. This is exactly what I mean by social conditioning. If I told you a fact about your past, would you think that I could speak to dead people? No. The only reason that you think that is because the person doing it suggested it.

Sorry but that is hogwash. I'm not talking about a piece of general info, I've stressed a couple of times that I mean something specific, private/personal, something that you have not discussed with anyone or given any clues about. There must be something from your past that you would be shocked to hear someone mention whether you consider them a medium or not. Especially if they don't know you from Adam and have not had a chance to find out anything about you.

Unless you experience it then no doubt you'll always feel the same.

People always say this kind of thing. People have been recorded having a 'reading' and come out of it amazed saying the same kind of things you're saying; "she told me about X, Y, Z which she couldn't have known" But when the tape is viewed this is not what actually occurred.
And so, with that in mind, even if you say to us that the medium told you something incredible I simply don't believe you. I believe that you believe what you say happened, you're not BSing, but without evidence to back you up it's all unsubstantiated talk. Not a single 'medium' whenever tested has ever shown psychic ability.

Understandably, lots of people want to believe it's true - even to the point that they will flock back to someone who has been very publicly and internationally proven to be a fraud.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

But if a medium told you a personal fact about your past, then that's not a question of faith. It's either true or it isn't and if it's true, then what? Do you deny it, or think it's some kind of Derren Brown mind trick? You've probably not been lucky enough to see one of the small percentage of genuine mediums.

Genuine mediums don't exist. It's a contradiction in terms.

And you seem to forget Occam's Razor. If a medium did tell me a fact about my past, I'd presume that they looked me up rather than taking the almighty logical leap to the idea that they can speak to dead people. This is exactly what I mean by social conditioning. If I told you a fact about your past, would you think that I could speak to dead people? No. The only reason that you think that is because the person doing it suggested it.

Sorry but that is hogwash. I'm not talking about a piece of general info, I've stressed a couple of times that I mean something specific, private/personal, something that you have not discussed with anyone or given any clues about. There must be something from your past that you would be shocked to hear someone mention whether you consider them a medium or not. Especially if they don't know you from Adam and have not had a chance to find out anything about you.

Unless you experience it then no doubt you'll always feel the same.

Just answer me this one thing.

If there is 'genuine' psychic mediums out there, then how come none of them have ever won the James Randi Educational Foundation prize?

That is $1,000,000 to anybody who can prove they have psychic abilities. It has never been won. Am I to believe they don't want it?

James Randi once had a woman on his show who was asked to carry out a reading. The man she read was asked the question "How many names of men and/or women did you think were mentioned during the reading?" The man said "5 to 10". The correct answer was MORE THAN 50.

They have clever ways of making you forget the bits they have gotten wrong.

 

[jma]

All you people who say that psychics are bollocks just haven't been to see a genuine one.

I accept that there are a lot of bullshitters but I have communicated with the real ones.

I always ask them for a 50/1 betting tip to see if they really know what they are doing.

Out of 130 that I have seen, 128 were charlatans or bullshitters and tipped losers. But two of them gave me tips on horses that were 50/1 and 40/1 respectively, despite knowing zilch about horse racing.

What are the odds on that? Just shows that there are genuine ones out there

 

[BulgarianPride]

All you people who say that psychics are bollocks just haven't been to see a genuine one.

I accept that there are a lot of bullshitters but I have communicated with the real ones.

I always ask them for a 50/1 betting tip to see if they really know what they are doing.

Out of 130 that I have seen, 128 were charlatans or bullshitters and tipped losers. But two of them gave me tips on horses that were 50/1 and 40/1 respectively, despite knowing zilch about horse racing.

What are the odds on that? Just shows that there are genuine ones out there

2/130 gave you tips on horses and you believe they have some physic powers? You've completely ruled out random chance. How many times did you return to these 2 mediums and what where the results then. Did they always get the right horse, if not what % did they get right?

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

All you people who say that psychics are bollocks just haven't been to see a genuine one.

I accept that there are a lot of bullshitters but I have communicated with the real ones.

I always ask them for a 50/1 betting tip to see if they really know what they are doing.

Out of 130 that I have seen, 128 were charlatans or bullshitters and tipped losers. But two of them gave me tips on horses that were 50/1 and 40/1 respectively, despite knowing zilch about horse racing.

What are the odds on that? Just shows that there are genuine ones out there

2/130 gave you tips on horses and you believe they have some physic powers? You've completely ruled out random chance. How many times did you return to these 2 mediums and what where the results then. Did they always get the right horse, if not what % did they get right?

I might be wrong, but I took jma's post to be a rather well constructed joke.