Spurs thread 2019/20

Discussion in 'General football forum' started by Ric, 8 Jun 2019.

  1. JimB

    JimB

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    It is only a racist term in certain very specific contexts. I’ll repost what I posted a couple of months ago on this thread:


    Brief history: Back in the 1970's-80's, fans of other clubs (particularly other London clubs and / or clubs with a hard core, right wing following) would routinely sing vile antisemitic songs at Spurs fans because Spurs had a significant Jewish fan base. After a while, Spurs fans as a whole (regardless of whether they were Jewish or not) fought back by claiming the words "yid" and "yiddo" for themselves. This drew the sting from the racists and the antisemitic chants largely disappeared.

    By this time, referring to themselves as "yids" or "yiddos" had become a kind of badge of honour. But as the years went by, it just became habit. When Spurs fans chant the word "yid" or "yiddo" now, they mean only "Spurs fan" or "Spurs player". Nothing more than that.

    "Yid" was originally an Ashkenazi Jewish word that meant, literally, "Jew". In yiddish, it is neutral or, when prefaced by "reb", respectful. It only became a pejorative in the employ of antisemites. I've seen claims from some quarters that Spurs fans had no right to reclaim the word and no right to use it still. That it belongs to Ashkenazi Jews.

    Sheer nonsense, of course (just as the notion of cultural appropriation being a bad thing is sheer nonsense). No one owns language. Spoken language is just sounds. And words / sounds can have many meanings. They can also change meaning or develop further meanings. Language is fluid; not set in stone. Such has happened countless times in the history of most languages. Especially English. I would argue that for every time the word "yid" is now used in English as an offensive term towards Jews, it is used ten or twenty times as often to mean Spurs fan or player. A new meaning of the word has therefore entered the vernacular, if not yet the lexicon.

    Lastly, we have enshrined in law in this country, the principle of Mens Rea. In the context of this discussion, Mens Rea determines when it is or isn't acceptable to use the word "yid". If someone were to walk into a synagogue or a Jewish supermarket and start angrily shouting and snarling about "yids", it's a safe bet that this person is an antisemite. If, however, a person is at the Tottenham Hotspur stadium, wearing a Tottenham shirt and smiling while singing "the thing I love most is being a yid", then it's a safe bet that this person is just a Spurs fan. Context is everything.

    And if someone is determined to ignore context and take offence at the use of the word "yid" regardless, then that is their problem alone. No one has the right not to be offended.
     
    Last edited: 13 Feb 2020
  2. JimB

    JimB

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    I will add that whenever anyone - David Baddiel, the police, or even THFC itself - has tried to ban or criminalise the word, it has only led to it being sung louder and more often. That’s why we have one of our most commonly sung songs:

    ...They tried to stop us
    But look what they did
    The thing I love most
    Is being a yid....

    Therefore, any attempt to ban it will be met with huge resistance and will be returned with interest. Simple answer - accept that the word has a new meaning (well, 40 years new) and that it is here to stay.
     
  3. denislawsbackheel

    denislawsbackheel

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    Let the ****s sing want they want.
     
    jimmygrimblesboots and JimB like this.

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  4. the-ecstacy-of-eight

    the-ecstacy-of-eight

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    What are your views regarding the treatment of Bobby Madley for his indiscretions?
     
  5. JimB

    JimB

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    Genuinely.........yet another story that I didn’t follow at all. What did he do / say?
     
  6. the-ecstacy-of-eight

    the-ecstacy-of-eight

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    Just google "Bobby Madley sacking"
     
  7. Breadsnapper

    Breadsnapper

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    I always thought yid was short for Yiddish which meant Jewish. As in Yidisha mama, I believe from old films but might be wrong. The only times I have heard this is by spurs fans as a reference to their Jewish support. Regarding Ali's comments as others have said I don't believe him to be a racist, but unfortunately that's the world we live in. It was silly, childresh and I'll thought. And draws parallels to the Bernardo tweet. Again as others have said the precedent was set with the way Bernado was treated.
     
  8. DrBlueBob

    DrBlueBob

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    I did just that. Really harsh and some friend to have done that to him as well.
     
  9. manclad

    manclad

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    City boys we are here,sh*g your women and drink yo
    So we are not really sure if Yid is an acceptable name for supporters of THFC.
    To clear matters up I am proposing a change of tack.
    So in homage to The Red Army of MUFC supporters who swept away all opposition in the 70s/80s I have some up with a new name for a collective of THFC fans.
    How about - RED SEA PEDESTRIAN ARMY.
    What do our Spurs friends who post on this board think of that??
     
  10. prestonibbo_mcfc

    prestonibbo_mcfc

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    Yiddish is the language spoken.
     

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