Stadium Expansion

[greenfingers]

In case you have all forgotten:
[1] The aim of the game is increasing revenue. We have to multiply our match day revenue by 5 to compete with the Rags.
[2] We now have an ST waiting list. There are somewhere around 10k on it I believe.
[3] The club could have sold DOUBLE the amount of exec boxes for this season. This makes the most money for the club per square foot.
[4] The torsion ring roof is very complex and very difficult to raise.
[5] There are two giant water shoots at the back off the North and South stand roofs that take rainwater from the roof via some very big pipes to the canal basin.
[6] It is only cost effective to keep the current stadium if we make changes once.
[7] The club wants to continue 'renting' so the City council get their current share of the cash. Buy the stadium and the money goes to Sport England and the council get nowt. (The club wants to continue investing in the community.)
[8] There is a small 3 month window between seasons to take the roof off / put a new one on.
[9] Changes to the Stadium are free in FFP terms.

For these reasons the whole roof WILL have to be replaced. You can't jack the back of the North/South stands up easily and still have the water draining away properly. It just isn't feasible.

The owner will want 80k crowds for big games within 25 years - with a good product - BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME.

- The whole roof WILL have to some off and be replaced.
- The new roof will be able to cover a 4 tier arena all the way around the ground as well as a 3rd tier.
- It looks like the 2nd tier will gain a 2nd row of boxes at the back (possibly a 3rd row eventually) with the rest a new more expensive 'supporter' experience.

If we don't want to share with the rags, then the construction will tale place leaving us with an uncovered North or South stand for 2 seasons and take 4 years in total.

[1.a] First - North Stand roof off. Fence of the back of the stand - a construction site.
[1.b.1] Build - North stand 3rd tier.
[1.b.2] Assemble new roof on east car-park
[1.c] New North Stand roof on.
[2.a] South Stand roof off. Fence of the back of the stand - a construction site.
[2.b.1] Build - South stand 3rd tier.
[2.b.2] Assemble new roof on east car-park
[2.c] New South Stand roof on.
[3.a.1] Assemble new Colin Bell roof on east car-park
[3.a.2] Colin Bell Stand roof off.
[3.b] New Colin Bell Stand roof on.
[3.c] Colin Bell Tier 2 empty and rebuilt for extra boxed [building site behind]
[4.a.1] Assemble new Kippax roof on east car-park
[4.a.2] Kippax Stand roof off + remove what's left of torsion ring.
[4.b] New Kippax Stand roof on.
[4.c] Kippaxl Tier 2 empty and rebuilt for extra boxed [building site behind]

Subsequent 4th teirs can be added when need arises.

Note: pretty much the same applies if the ends are rebuilt to be one single tier - though I suspect it would take a bit longer.

Very well put BUT

[2] We now have an ST waiting list. There are somewhere around 10k on it I believe.

We don't have a ST waiting list - anyone who is a Blue Member is given first choice at the end of the season to buy an unrenewed ST.

60,000 has always been the figure talked about regarding expansion of the Stadium.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Very well put BUT
[2] We now have an ST waiting list. There are somewhere around 10k on it I believe.
We don't have a ST waiting list - anyone who is a Blue Member is given first choice at the end of the season to buy an unrenewed ST.
60,000 has always been the figure talked about regarding expansion of the Stadium.

That may be true but 10,000+ folks were told: Sorry no Season cards available - well over half of them the club had never heard from before.

 

[warpig]

In case you have all forgotten:
[1] The aim of the game is increasing revenue. We have to multiply our match day revenue by 5 to compete with the Rags.
[2] We now have an ST waiting list. There are somewhere around 10k on it I believe.
[3] The club could have sold DOUBLE the amount of exec boxes for this season. This makes the most money for the club per square foot.
[4] The torsion ring roof is very complex and very difficult to raise.
[5] There are two giant water shoots at the back off the North and South stand roofs that take rainwater from the roof via some very big pipes to the canal basin.
[6] It is only cost effective to keep the current stadium if we make changes once.
[7] The club wants to continue 'renting' so the City council get their current share of the cash. Buy the stadium and the money goes to Sport England and the council get nowt. (The club wants to continue investing in the community.)
[8] There is a small 3 month window between seasons to take the roof off / put a new one on.
[9] Changes to the Stadium are free in FFP terms.

For these reasons the whole roof WILL have to be replaced. You can't jack the back of the North/South stands up easily and still have the water draining away properly. It just isn't feasible.

The owner will want 80k crowds for big games within 25 years - with a good product - BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME.

- The whole roof WILL have to some off and be replaced.
- The new roof will be able to cover a 4 tier arena all the way around the ground as well as a 3rd tier.
- It looks like the 2nd tier will gain a 2nd row of boxes at the back (possibly a 3rd row eventually) with the rest a new more expensive 'supporter' experience.

If we don't want to share with the rags, then the construction will tale place leaving us with an uncovered North or South stand for 2 seasons and take 4 years in total.

[1.a] First - North Stand roof off. Fence of the back of the stand - a construction site.
[1.b.1] Build - North stand 3rd tier.
[1.b.2] Assemble new roof on east car-park
[1.c] New North Stand roof on.
[2.a] South Stand roof off. Fence of the back of the stand - a construction site.
[2.b.1] Build - South stand 3rd tier.
[2.b.2] Assemble new roof on east car-park
[2.c] New South Stand roof on.
[3.a.1] Assemble new Colin Bell roof on east car-park
[3.a.2] Colin Bell Stand roof off.
[3.b] New Colin Bell Stand roof on.
[3.c] Colin Bell Tier 2 empty and rebuilt for extra boxed [building site behind]
[4.a.1] Assemble new Kippax roof on east car-park
[4.a.2] Kippax Stand roof off + remove what's left of torsion ring.
[4.b] New Kippax Stand roof on.
[4.c] Kippaxl Tier 2 empty and rebuilt for extra boxed [building site behind]

Subsequent 4th teirs can be added when need arises.

Note: pretty much the same applies if the ends are rebuilt to be one single tier - though I suspect it would take a bit longer.

Very well put BUT

[2] We now have an ST waiting list. There are somewhere around 10k on it I believe.

We don't have a ST waiting list - anyone who is a Blue Member is given first choice at the end of the season to buy an unrenewed ST.

everyone may have got a letter, but iirc there were only about 200 or so actually released.

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

When you see the stunning piece of architecture that is the Abu Dhabi race track, do you seriously believe that our owners are not going to make every last person stand up and take note when our designig plans are made public.

I for one cannot fucking wait for this!

Imagine the anti city brigade when this is put in the public domain. I expect the "ruining football" or "dirty oil money" comments to be thrown about.

 

[southstander93]

DiscoSteve, great photoshopping, Any chance of photoshopping a design for the south/north stand being replaced with one massive tier like at Dortmund? Someone told me it was discussed at the meeting.

Just for the record, this isn't photoshopping - I have a hybrid model of the Stadium as taken from Google Earth and I have been butchering it.

Fair enough mate, is it not possible to mock up a one tiered end then? I'm useless at stuff like that so haven't a clue how hard it is. Top work again with them pictures though. I'm quite liking the roof being so close to the stand, the atmosphere will be kept in the ground better. Looks like the general structure of the roof is kept the same too.

 

[Kenney_The_Blue]

DiscoSteve, great photoshopping, Any chance of photoshopping a design for the south/north stand being replaced with one massive tier like at Dortmund? Someone told me it was discussed at the meeting.

Just for the record, this isn't photoshopping - I have a hybrid model of the Stadium as taken from Google Earth and I have been butchering it.

Fair enough mate, is it not possible to mock up a one tiered end then? I'm useless at stuff like that so haven't a clue how hard it is. Top work again with them pictures though. I'm quite liking the roof being so close to the stand, the atmosphere will be kept in the ground better. Looks like the general structure of the roof is kept the same too.

If this was structurally possible I would love it, the atmosphere would be much better with that roof.

 

[DiscoSteve]

DiscoSteve, great photoshopping, Any chance of photoshopping a design for the south/north stand being replaced with one massive tier like at Dortmund? Someone told me it was discussed at the meeting.

Just for the record, this isn't photoshopping - I have a hybrid model of the Stadium as taken from Google Earth and I have been butchering it.

Fair enough mate, is it not possible to mock up a one tiered end then? I'm useless at stuff like that so haven't a clue how hard it is. Top work again with them pictures though. I'm quite liking the roof being so close to the stand, the atmosphere will be kept in the ground better. Looks like the general structure of the roof is kept the same too.

Yup I could have a go BUT I don't think its going to happen because it would reduce the opportunities for corporate boxes.
The 64,000 dollar question is whether the roof survives or not - if they only want to shoot for 60,000 then IMHO it can be done using the current roof. If they want 80,000 then the current roof is a gonna go... like so....

 

[LoveCity]

Surely a roof is a must in Manchester? I sat at the front of 102 last season and got wet through regularly, I doubt the entire stadium would like that happening to them. ;)

 

[stonie]

I drive a mobile crane and lifted in the new bridge at St Helens rugby ground, the guy in charge of that project was in charge or part charge of the building of our stadium for the Commonwealth games, so obviously we got talking about football and the expansion of the stadium came up, the long and the short of it is that it can not be expanded without starting from scratch due many reasons, just looking at the design of the stadium and anyone with any degree building knowledge could work it out, so put expansion out of our minds as we need to fill ours EVERY game then maybe build another...

It's pretty obvious the club don't agree with that, or they wouldn't be talking about it.

Well I am only quoting from the engineer in charge....it will never happen....fact

 

[Leyther]

In case you have all forgotten:
[1] The aim of the game is increasing revenue. We have to multiply our match day revenue by 5 to compete with the Rags.
[2] We now have an ST waiting list. There are somewhere around 10k on it I believe.
[3] The club could have sold DOUBLE the amount of exec boxes for this season. This makes the most money for the club per square foot.
[4] The torsion ring roof is very complex and very difficult to raise.
[5] There are two giant water shoots at the back off the North and South stand roofs that take rainwater from the roof via some very big pipes to the canal basin.
[6] It is only cost effective to keep the current stadium if we make changes once.
[7] The club wants to continue 'renting' so the City council get their current share of the cash. Buy the stadium and the money goes to Sport England and the council get nowt. (The club wants to continue investing in the community.)
[8] There is a small 3 month window between seasons to take the roof off / put a new one on.
[9] Changes to the Stadium are free in FFP terms.

For these reasons the whole roof WILL have to be replaced. You can't jack the back of the North/South stands up easily and still have the water draining away properly. It just isn't feasible.

The owner will want 80k crowds for big games within 25 years - with a good product - BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME.

- The whole roof WILL have to some off and be replaced.
- The new roof will be able to cover a 4 tier arena all the way around the ground as well as a 3rd tier.
- It looks like the 2nd tier will gain a 2nd row of boxes at the back (possibly a 3rd row eventually) with the rest a new more expensive 'supporter' experience.

If we don't want to share with the rags, then the construction will tale place leaving us with an uncovered North or South stand for 2 seasons and take 4 years in total.

[1.a] First - North Stand roof off. Fence of the back of the stand - a construction site.
[1.b.1] Build - North stand 3rd tier.
[1.b.2] Assemble new roof on east car-park
[1.c] New North Stand roof on.
[2.a] South Stand roof off. Fence of the back of the stand - a construction site.
[2.b.1] Build - South stand 3rd tier.
[2.b.2] Assemble new roof on east car-park
[2.c] New South Stand roof on.
[3.a.1] Assemble new Colin Bell roof on east car-park
[3.a.2] Colin Bell Stand roof off.
[3.b] New Colin Bell Stand roof on.
[3.c] Colin Bell Tier 2 empty and rebuilt for extra boxed [building site behind]
[4.a.1] Assemble new Kippax roof on east car-park
[4.a.2] Kippax Stand roof off + remove what's left of torsion ring.
[4.b] New Kippax Stand roof on.
[4.c] Kippaxl Tier 2 empty and rebuilt for extra boxed [building site behind]

Subsequent 4th teirs can be added when need arises.

Note: pretty much the same applies if the ends are rebuilt to be one single tier - though I suspect it would take a bit longer.

Or build an entirely independant structucture to support a cantilevered terrace at the back of north/south stand during the season.
Take off the roof install precast terracing and replace roof during the close season. The sites would be so far apart they could do both simultaneously if they wished. Three month window 24/7 working would see the new terracing and roof more or less complete?