Stock up on bog roll here we go again

[Silva 83]

I have mixed feelings about the Covid vaccine.

Unfortunately, I had blood clots in my lungs that nearly killed me. I had two attacks (the second even when I was on blood thinners). I was very ill the first time it happened. The doctors have told me it’s likely, looking at the timeline of when I had the jabs and when I had the clots, that it was the vaccine that caused them and that there was a risk of clots higher from the Covid vaccine than they might expect from a vaccine.

I have to go to the Anticoagukation dept. at the hospital every couple of weeks where I have my blood checked to see how my clotting levels are doing and they adjust my thinner dosage according to how my levels are (after the first clot they didn’t have me doing that, they just left me with a daily dose of a thinner and left me to it). Hearing conversations or talking to other patients in the waiting rooms over the last few years as well as the Nurses in Anticoag, lots of people have said it’s the Covid vaccine why they’re there. A number are fairly young to middle aged like me (where clots would mostly be a middle aged to old age issue).

I personally know two other people - one lad nearly lost his leg from a clot and he had a chuck of his lower leg muscles taken away in the operation to remove the clot; and unfortunately, my work colleague’s Sister died of blood clots in the lungs around the same time it happened to me - in both cases the Doctors have said it’s a possibility that the Covid vaccine was the cause (it’s difficult to diagnose the cause of a clot case-by-case because it’s already happened, but they’re looking at the timelines of vaccine to clot and the ages of people - all three of us were between 35-45, all of us fit and healthy).

It’s been nearly two years since the first clots happened to me, and I’m only just recovering now. Until recently, any exertion I was doing was making me nearly pass out. Just walking up the stairs was hard for a while.

However, I knew at the time that it was more likely I’d die from Covid itself than the vaccine and that all medication (pretty much all things we ingest) has side effects. I was just an unfortunate patient that the Covid vaccine didn’t agree with.

Unfortunately, I also knew two people who died from Covid itself (two mate’s Dads).

Although, I do get invited for an annual Covid jab still now due to my risk factors of having damaged lungs, after having it again once, I turn it down now because I felt like shit for months after the last one I had and my clotting levels were fluctuating.

I will think long and hard about the side effects and risk factors of any vaccine, medication and taking into consideration the virus/bacteria/illness, before ever putting anything in me again.

And it has made me think about things like human evolution and 4 billion years of our cells getting to this stage without medication and that we are excellent biological specimens that have internal healing and fighting powers. Is it arguably better for our evolution to have a virus kill off a chunk of the population but achieve herd immunity through mass contraction? As a species are we really supposed to get ill and the weakest die and the strongest survive? But then I think that’s too clinical and uncaring for those who die?
And then look at where we are with Covid now after the vaccine; it’s just become a bad cold due to our immunity to it.

Anyway, it’s not a mantra I live by and it’s not made me become an anti-vaccer or owt. Just made me consider things more deeply and I don’t blame anyone for wanting to take risks into consideration before putting any form of vaccine or medication into them. I don’t get those who think everyone’s lying to us and out to get us, I also do not think there was some worldwide conspiracy to kill off part of the population through a vaccine - they’d just not have gone into lockdowns and had us all contract Covid and see many more die from the virus than the vaccine had that been the case. There’s even a conspiracy theory that Mpox has been caused by the Covid vaccine, which has been proven to be false.

So I’m in the middle with it all. I think those who just lift their sleeve up and call everyone who’s sceptical a stupid **** are very unhelpful people, but I think those who run with conspiracies and become rabid anti-vaccers are daft too.

Fair enough mate. That is a fair point.

Obviously there are concerns. Some people do indeed face side-effects (and I am sorry for the clots and things that have happened to you). I should have been more considerate in how I worded the above. Certainly people can have reactions and even when I got mine in the past, I felt worried for the first 10 minutes due to a warm/racing heart. I don't like getting it of course, but I see it as a necessary thing as I'd rather take it than risk COVID - more to protect my mum as I am relatively young and healthy.

I guess I just have a sore spot for it because my grandad died from the virus. So when I see people act like they know more than medical experts, it makes me raise my eyebrow. However, of course we shouldn't accept the government and authorities' opinions without question.

My main issue is that I feel many of the anti-vaxxers are against the vaccine for conspiracy's sake, rather than actually having much logic to their thoughts. For instance they see Eriksen's cardiac arrest at Euro 2020 and attribute it to the vaccine. Now, it could be that, but it's more likely it isn't. But they let their minds run away with them.

But yes, of course we should bear in mind that some people will have side-effects, and that is true of any drug or vaccine.

The stuff about survival of the fittest seems to lean into discussions of eugenics etc. My own perspective is a humanist one - even if it does make our species evolve and overall stronger to 'weed out' those who are weaker, we have an ethical obligation to look after those who are the weakest among us. Without caring for those who are weak, the end point of that could be letting old people or disabled people die without dignity, or not allowing them a worthwhile life. And in general, any species that doesn't care for its most vulnerable really isn't a good species anyway.

 

[Magicpole]

Have you thought beyond the 'Me! Me! Me!' aspects of society today?

I mean, why aren't people in Western society or governments urging makers of these life saving vaccines to vaccinate the poor citizens of countries that can't afford the medicines or have the facilities to make the said vaccines??

Would it help stop the spread for the 'good of humanity'?

Why must medical companies always need to make a profit for these things.

It's shameful this need for capitalism.

I have no idea how the point about capitalism is in any way reflected in what I write. I wasn’t talking about the lack of these drugs for everyone. I agree totally that the world can afford it.

So the me me me part doesn’t stand up. I am not one of those stupid cunts who say, fuck them. Although we have seen these last weeks plenty who would. What those utter morons don’t realise cos we don’t protect us all, we are all at risk.

Haven’t we learned, anti vaxers apart, that these viruses travel? I am not a me me me. You’ve mixed me up with a right wing ****. That’s offensive to me. Not in a, I’m going to cry or throw a strop, but I will not be out into the same group with people I loathe.

 

[M23 Citizen]

Fair enough mate. That is a fair point.

Obviously there are concerns. Some people do indeed face side-effects (and I am sorry for the clots and things that have happened to you). I should have been more considerate in how I worded the above. Certainly people can have reactions and even when I got mine in the past, I felt worried for the first 10 minutes due to a warm/racing heart. I don't like getting it of course, but I see it as a necessary thing as I'd rather take it than risk COVID - more to protect my mum as I am relatively young and healthy.

I guess I just have a sore spot for it because my grandad died from the virus. So when I see people act like they know more than medical experts, it makes me raise my eyebrow. However, of course we shouldn't accept the government and authorities' opinions without question.

My main issue is that I feel many of the anti-vaxxers are against the vaccine for conspiracy's sake, rather than actually having much logic to their thoughts. For instance they see Eriksen's cardiac arrest at Euro 2020 and attribute it to the vaccine. Now, it could be that, but it's more likely it isn't. But they let their minds run away with them.

But yes, of course we should bear in mind that some people will have side-effects, and that is true of any drug or vaccine.

The stuff about survival of the fittest seems to lean into discussions of eugenics etc. My own perspective is a humanist one - even if it does make our species evolve and overall stronger to 'weed out' those who are weaker, we have an ethical obligation to look after those who are the weakest among us. Without caring for those who are weak, the end point of that could be letting old people or disabled people die without dignity, or not allowing them a worthwhile life. And in general, any species that doesn't care for its most vulnerable really isn't a good species anyway.

Nice one mate. Yeah no worries, didn’t think you were being inconsiderate at all.

That’s the thing isn’t it? I could take a simple pain killer and something bad can happen because all things have side effects. Smell your wee when you’ve eaten asparagus, that’s a side effect of eating asparagus and it being broken down into sulphur compounds.

Talking of greens (having done a hell of a lot of reading about blood clots and talking to clinicians loads about them); I have to eat a steady amount of greens in my diet, day-to-day, because a side effect of eating leafy green vegetables is coagulation. Again, another side effect of ingesting something as normal as spinach! And if I have meals where there’s a lot of leafy green veg, I should also include olive oil, ginger and garlic where I can because they are good anticoagulants.

So for those who run with the anti-vacc thing, do they realise that everything has side effects?

You were spot on in your original post about there being far too much right wing ideology out there which draws people in and has them overly sceptical about too many things. Conspiracy theories are really unhelpful because many are just wild and unfounded but dangerous too because so many run their lives by them.

The ethical obligation is what always swings my thoughts back round from thinking ‘the strong survive’ being a bit harsh. We’ve been caring for the infirm as a species for hundreds of thousands of years. We should always continue to do so.

 

[Silva 83]

Nice one mate. Yeah no worries, didn’t think you were being inconsiderate at all.

That’s the thing isn’t it? I could take a simply pain killer and something bad can happen because all things have side effects. Smell your wee when you’ve eaten asparagus, that’s a side effect of eating asparagus and it being broken down into sulphur compounds.

Talking of greens (having done a hell of a lot of reading about blood clots and talking to clinicians loads about them); I have to eat a steady amount of greens in my diet, day-to-day, because a side effect of eating leafy green vegetables is coagulation. Again, another side effect of ingesting something as normal as spinach! And if I have meals where there’s a lot of leafy green veg, I should also include olive oil, ginger and garlic where I can because they are good anticoagulants.

So for those who run with the anti-vacc thing, do they realise that everything has side effects?

You were spot on in your original post about there being far too much right wing ideology out there which draws people in and has them overly sceptical about too many things. Conspiracy theories are really unhelpful because many are just wild and unfounded but dangerous too because so many run their lives by them.

The ethical obligation is what always swings my thoughts back round from thinking ‘the strong survive’ being a bit harsh. We’ve been caring for the infirm as a species for hundreds of thousands of years. We should always continue to do so.

Great post M23. I agree with all you said. And thanks for saying that you agree with me on the right-wing rhetoric because I feel much of it is actually quite dangerous for many, many people.

As for your eating habits, hopefully you can get the right amount of greens then. It does sound like you have to be diligent and careful in what you're ingesting, as you say. Just take care man and make sure you get the right quantities. You seem smart and careful so I know you will.

And that's another point I was making, yes. Everything has side-effects - it's the nature of a vaccine, but it's a lesser evil compared to actually getting a virus/disease. But these people think the virus is completely made up, which is simply daft.

And yeah, agree on the last paragraph. Caring for the infirm is what makes us human - without it we would lose any compassion and decency we have. There are good people out there, despite what is happening in the world. It's many people's natural instinct to protect the vulnerable, and if we don't have that, we have nothing in my opinion (as hippie as it sounds).

 

[west didsblue]

Tell that to the 2m folk suffering from Long Covid. Two of my three kids are currently having their lives ruined by it.

About 2m people have long Covid in England and Scotland, figures show

Many report symptoms lasting two years or longer and about 1.5m say disease affects day-to-day activities

www.theguardian.com

Sorry to hear about your kids.
I should have been more specific and referred to most people rather than generalising my comment.
Did your kids originally catch Covid prior to vaccine availability?

 

[M23 Citizen]

Great post M23. I agree with all you said. And thanks for saying that you agree with me on the right-wing rhetoric because I feel much of it is actually quite dangerous for many, many people.

As for your eating habits, hopefully you can get the right amount of greens then. It does sound like you have to be diligent and careful in what you're ingesting, as you say. Just take care man and make sure you get the right quantities. You seem smart and careful so I know you will.

And that's another point I was making, yes. Everything has side-effects - it's the nature of a vaccine, but it's a lesser evil compared to actually getting a virus/disease. But these people think the virus is completely made up, which is simply daft.

And yeah, agree on the last paragraph. Caring for the infirm is what makes us human - without it we would lose any compassion and decency we have. There are good people out there, despite what is happening in the world. It's many people's natural instinct to protect the vulnerable, and if we don't have that, we have nothing in my opinion (as hippie as it sounds).

Indeed. That’s why I had the vaccine in the first place because I knew that Covid was killing a lot of people, and I even had another jab after I’d had the clots because my lungs were weak and if I got Covid I could be in trouble.

Now I’m getting healthier again, I am going to steer clear of the Covid vaccine because it just doesn’t agree with me at all, but I’d still tell people to get it if they are offered despite what happened to me if they think it’s right for them or they have someone close who might be at risk from Covid.

But cheers mate, yeah. I’m getting fitter and healthier and I’ll be back to normal soon!

 

[Silva 83]

Indeed. That’s why I had the vaccine in the first place because I knew that Covid was killing a lot of people, and I even had another jab after I’d had the clots because my lungs were weak and if I got Covid I could be in trouble.

Now I’m getting healthier again, I am going to steer clear of the Covid vaccine because it just doesn’t agree with me at all, but I’d still tell people to get it if they are offered despite what happened to me if they think it’s right for them or they have someone close who might be at risk from Covid.

Yeah, on a case-by-case basis I would certainly agree that if someone has experienced side effects, it is probably best not to get it. It sounds like you are in a better place now health-wise as you suggest, and that means you have less need of the vaccine as your immune system is stronger now.

To be honest, I am susceptible to the right-wing fearmongering myself - I think it is human to be scared when people make those points. When I was getting my vaccines I too worried about something happening to me, but so far I have been ok.

Whether the vaccine has protected me from actually getting COVID? Who knows. I think I am one of those fortunate ones who hasn't had it. The only time I felt ill in the last three years was in September 2021, when I had flu like symptoms for a few days. I rarely get flus, but to be honest it didn't seem any worse than any flu or cold I had had before. I didn't do a test or anything (I wasn't going out at that time anyway) so whether it genuinely was COVID, I am not sure.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Sorry to hear about your kids.
I should have been more specific and referred to most people rather than generalising my comment.
Did your kids originally catch Covid prior to vaccine availability?

No. After it was available. Son caught it once and is now two years into LC. He has gone from extreme sports to struggling to walk more than half a mile. Daughter had it twice and the second time continued to suffer from LC. She is eight months in and getting progressively worse.

 

[west didsblue]

No. After it was available. Son caught it once and is now two years into LC. He has gone from extreme sports to struggling to walk more than half a mile. Daughter had it twice and the second time continued to suffer from LC. She is eight months in and getting progressively worse.

Seems like they’re very unlucky. From what I’ve read, being vaccinated significantly reduces the incidence and severity of long covid.
Hope they make a full recovery.
There’s still so much we don’t know about this disease including why some people are so much more susceptible to complications.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Seems like they’re very unlucky. From what I’ve read, being vaccinated significantly reduces the incidence and severity of long covid.
Hope they make a full recovery.
There’s still so much we don’t know about this disease including why some people are so much more susceptible to complications.

Daughter is a dementia nurse so she was hot on all of her vaccinations because of work. Son was fully vaccinated too.