Stop abusing the Hughes out brigade - we have a valid point

[Revolver]

As others have said it is difficult decision. I am pro Hughes (just about) because of the following reasons;

1. We were hardly an all conquering team when he joined.
2. He's been in the job less than a year. And to build a good side does take time
3. His signings have been good.

But set against this we have an exspensive side that shows no improvement. So to answer the question those who feel that Hughes is not up to the job have ever right to speak up. But for anyone to say that its an easy decision as to what should happen are wrong.

 

[PoolHustler]

macyman. Great points mate. I've only been watching City for about 32 years but i have seen 137 managers come and go and there is no coincidence in my mind that's why i've also seen us with sod all. Go to the City museum and look at the "roll of honour" of managers since the war and look an the number since 1985 (when Taggart took over the scum). It's plain embarrassing. There have been many times this season that i've thought we had no option but to sack MH (West Brom, Stoke, Allborg - all away of course!) but i keep coming back to that list of managers and despite his obvious failings this season, i really think we've got to give someone time eventually if we are ever going to build success. I was pleased when we got Hughes and i have to say been pleased with most of his signings, so give him another year or two and let him weed out the bad influences and bad defenders and let's see where we go.

Hughes has to be given more time otherwise we will continue doing what we've being doing for the last 33 years regardless how much money is chucked into it. It's no coincidence that the last two managers we had that lasted more than 5 years in the job Mercer & Book both won things for City.
It's also no coincidence that the 5 longest serving Premiership managers occupy 5 of the top 6 places this season and most of these managers had very rocky starts, Taggart, O'Neil, Moyes were all fighting relegation battles in their early years but their clubs stuck by them and look where they are now.
Been said so many times before but STABILITY is the key and until we learn this we are going to suffer many more years of misery.

 

[Pam]

uote]

Jim, yes you can't argue with Wenger and Baconface, hugely successful.
Honestly though, I'm not sure what thats got to do with MH performance as a manager??
Here's my 2 questions to you..
With what he inherited and spent has he made progress?
Have you been happy with MHs contribution and effect as our manager?

Right; I'll answer them before I go to bed. People seem to be equating us having this money with suddenly, from years of dross, going on to win trophies overnight. Money seems to be one of the major points used by the Hughes out people to back up their argument (granted, not the only point but it does keep cropping up. And in answer to your second point, no I haven't been totally happy with Hughes' contribution in his first season. But, as I said in my earlier post, there comes a point when we have to stop these endless managerial sackings. Say we get rid of Hughes in the summer (and I think we probably will) and get a new man in. What happens if he only gets us to 8th or 9th and no trophy in his first season? And I'm not saying that will happen; I, like everybody else on here can't possibly know what would happen in those circumstances. Do we then get rid of him as well? Anyway, I'm off to bed!

Jim, you're absolutely right about the trophy thing . It would be absurd to judge Hughes on that criteria alone and I don' think anyone would. What I worry about is the fact that we've put in shit performances in virtually every away game we've played this season and we have had zilch all of an improvement. If anything we're getting worse. It is beyond a joke. Hughes can't motivate, he can't strategise and he can't articulate.
You would expect that by April we would have found at least one good performance away from home but no. It is preposterous when you look at how much money has been spent on the squad already. I say again it is a waste and it is down to mismanagement.

 

[Pam]

macyman. Great points mate. I've only been watching City for about 32 years but i have seen 137 managers come and go and there is no coincidence in my mind that's why i've also seen us with sod all. Go to the City museum and look at the "roll of honour" of managers since the war and look an the number since 1985 (when Taggart took over the scum). It's plain embarrassing. There have been many times this season that i've thought we had no option but to sack MH (West Brom, Stoke, Allborg - all away of course!) but i keep coming back to that list of managers and despite his obvious failings this season, i really think we've got to give someone time eventually if we are ever going to build success. I was pleased when we got Hughes and i have to say been pleased with most of his signings, so give him another year or two and let him weed out the bad influences and bad defenders and let's see where we go.

Hughes has to be given more time otherwise we will continue doing what we've being doing for the last 33 years regardless how much money is chucked into it. It's no coincidence that the last two managers we had that lasted more than 5 years in the job Mercer & Book both won things for City.
It's also no coincidence that the 5 longest serving Premiership managers occupy 5 of the top 6 places this season and most of these managers had very rocky starts, Taggart, O'Neil, Moyes were all fighting relegation battles in their early years but their clubs stuck by them and look where they are now.
Been said so many times before but STABILITY is the key and until we learn this we are going to suffer many more years of misery.

macyman. Great points mate. I've only been watching City for about 32 years but i have seen 137 managers come and go and there is no coincidence in my mind that's why i've also seen us with sod all. Go to the City museum and look at the "roll of honour" of managers since the war and look an the number since 1985 (when Taggart took over the scum). It's plain embarrassing. There have been many times this season that i've thought we had no option but to sack MH (West Brom, Stoke, Allborg - all away of course!) but i keep coming back to that list of managers and despite his obvious failings this season, i really think we've got to give someone time eventually if we are ever going to build success. I was pleased when we got Hughes and i have to say been pleased with most of his signings, so give him another year or two and let him weed out the bad influences and bad defenders and let's see where we go.

Hughes has to be given more time otherwise we will continue doing what we've being doing for the last 33 years regardless how much money is chucked into it. It's no coincidence that the last two managers we had that lasted more than 5 years in the job Mercer & Book both won things for City.
It's also no coincidence that the 5 longest serving Premiership managers occupy 5 of the top 6 places this season and most of these managers had very rocky starts, Taggart, O'Neil, Moyes were all fighting relegation battles in their early years but their clubs stuck by them and look where they are now.
Been said so many times before but STABILITY is the key and until we learn this we are going to suffer many more years of misery.

Hughes has to be given more time otherwise we will continue doing what we've being doing for the last 33 years regardless how much money is chucked into it. It's no coincidence that the last two managers we had that lasted more than 5 years in the job Mercer & Book both won things for City.
It's also no coincidence that the 5 longest serving Premiership managers occupy 5 of the top 6 places this season and most of these managers had very rocky starts, Taggart, O'Neil, Moyes were all fighting relegation battles in their early years but their clubs stuck by them and look where they are now.
Been said so many times before but STABILITY is the key and until we learn this we are going to suffer many more years of misery.

Pool, this is a really articulate and persuasive thread but I don't feel like being talked around just now,

 

[Mike D]

macyman. Great points mate. I've only been watching City for about 32 years but i have seen 137 managers come and go and there is no coincidence in my mind that's why i've also seen us with sod all. Go to the City museum and look at the "roll of honour" of managers since the war and look an the number since 1985 (when Taggart took over the scum). It's plain embarrassing. There have been many times this season that i've thought we had no option but to sack MH (West Brom, Stoke, Allborg - all away of course!) but i keep coming back to that list of managers and despite his obvious failings this season, i really think we've got to give someone time eventually if we are ever going to build success. I was pleased when we got Hughes and i have to say been pleased with most of his signings, so give him another year or two and let him weed out the bad influences and bad defenders and let's see where we go.

Hughes has to be given more time otherwise we will continue doing what we've being doing for the last 33 years regardless how much money is chucked into it. It's no coincidence that the last two managers we had that lasted more than 5 years in the job Mercer & Book both won things for City.
It's also no coincidence that the 5 longest serving Premiership managers occupy 5 of the top 6 places this season and most of these managers had very rocky starts, Taggart, O'Neil, Moyes were all fighting relegation battles in their early years but their clubs stuck by them and look where they are now.
Been said so many times before but STABILITY is the key and until we learn this we are going to suffer many more years of misery.

But again we are banging our heads again the proverbial brick wall because just because you give someone time doesn't mean they will make the team any better. Apart from Moyes, O'Neill, Taggart and Wenger had actually won something before they came to there respective clubs. Its all well and good keep bleating on about STABILITY but you need the right man there or else the whole thing will come tumbling down Ramos at Spuds proves that.

Good signings doesn't and never does make a good manager. And to start rolling out Moyes as a yardstick is hardly a comparable. When Moyes took over Everton didn't have a pot to piss in
were hardly challenging for honours. Don't get me wrong Hughes is a good manager and given time and lots of dough the likelyhood is he'll fashion us into another Blackburn in 2-3 years time and that will be it.

The question is when you are the richest club in the world and real chance to break into the top 4, is medocracy good enough? I like the rest of us who don't see MH as the right man can't see the point of changing managers when eventually do become another Blackburn. I would sooner get the foundations right and build the success with someone who is going to be able to take us to the next level and beyond that.

At the end of the day this is not a matter of chopping and changing to try and buy the success quickly. The reason for change is to get the right man to take us forward in the long term not a quick fix. In the same way a successful PLC appoints a CEO to delivers its strategies ADUG needs to look long and hard to get the right man unfortunatly the man they've inherited isn't up to scratch.

 

[stockportblue]

So ally; you say that the "Hughes Out Brigade" (your choice of words) have every right to express their opinion without receiving abuse. Absolutely. I agree with that 100%. I have never dished out personal abuse to anybody who wants rid of Hughes. However, it must surely follow that those who want Hughes to stay, also have every right to express their opinion without abuse or being accused of copping out. Yes?

Understand your reply Jimharri, but I suppose its a case of being fair to both sides of the argument.
I know there are many throw away threads that just say Hughes out, ex-rag stuff etc. etc..
My main point is that the genuine hughes-out thinkers are ones that have a strong case to back their point and shouldn't be abused by many on this site that come out with the same old irrelevant stability point.
JohnMaddocks makes a very good case where he put forward the point that every other prem side who changed managers mid-season (not even pre-season!) have had a positive run of results compared to the out-going manager.
And to strenghthen his case, they haven't had a pinch of the cash MH has!
To me its so dissapointing to think that out of Redknapp, Allardyce, Sgerbia, Kinnear etc.. Hughes has had the least impact on a team's performance compared to the last manager.
I believe we need a personality to get (what look like good signings) these players playing week in week out and at the very least, performing away from home.

Just can't be the right man.

Coglioni- as they say in Italy-thats bollocks in our mother tongue.Everybody knows that new managers regularly get short term positive results.City need to think for the long term.

 

[Pam]

You wouldn't want stability if Miss Piggy was our manager. or Engelbert Humperdink.

 

[PoolHustler]

macyman. Great points mate. I've only been watching City for about 32 years but i have seen 137 managers come and go and there is no coincidence in my mind that's why i've also seen us with sod all. Go to the City museum and look at the "roll of honour" of managers since the war and look an the number since 1985 (when Taggart took over the scum). It's plain embarrassing. There have been many times this season that i've thought we had no option but to sack MH (West Brom, Stoke, Allborg - all away of course!) but i keep coming back to that list of managers and despite his obvious failings this season, i really think we've got to give someone time eventually if we are ever going to build success. I was pleased when we got Hughes and i have to say been pleased with most of his signings, so give him another year or two and let him weed out the bad influences and bad defenders and let's see where we go.

Hughes has to be given more time otherwise we will continue doing what we've being doing for the last 33 years regardless how much money is chucked into it. It's no coincidence that the last two managers we had that lasted more than 5 years in the job Mercer & Book both won things for City.
It's also no coincidence that the 5 longest serving Premiership managers occupy 5 of the top 6 places this season and most of these managers had very rocky starts, Taggart, O'Neil, Moyes were all fighting relegation battles in their early years but their clubs stuck by them and look where they are now.
Been said so many times before but STABILITY is the key and until we learn this we are going to suffer many more years of misery.

But again we are banging our heads again the proverbial brick wall because just because you give someone time doesn't mean they will make the team any better. Apart from Moyes, O'Neill, Taggart and Wenger had actually won something before they came to there respective clubs. Its all well and good keep bleating on about STABILITY but you need the right man there or else the whole thing will come tumbling down Ramos at Spuds proves that.

Good signings doesn't and never does make a good manager. And to start rolling out Moyes as a yardstick is hardly a comparable. When Moyes took over Everton didn't have a pot to piss in
were hardly challenging for honours. Don't get me wrong Hughes is a good manager and given time and lots of dough the likelyhood is he'll fashion us into another Blackburn in 2-3 years time and that will be it.

The question is when you are the richest club in the world and real chance to break into the top 4, is medocracy good enough? I like the rest of us who don't see MH as the right man can't see the point of changing managers when eventually do become another Blackburn. I would sooner get the foundations right and build the success with someone who is going to be able to take us to the next level and beyond that.

At the end of the day this is not a matter of chopping and changing to try and buy the success quickly. The reason for change is to get the right man to take us forward in the long term not a quick fix. In the same way a successful PLC appoints a CEO to delivers its strategies ADUG needs to look long and hard to get the right man unfortunatly the man they've inherited isn't up to scratch.

You seem to have forgotten who Spurs sacked to get Ramos as their manager, yes Martin Jol who if you ask most Spurs fans would have him back him back tomorrow if they could and regret the very day they were calling for his head because had they kept him they would definitely be challenging for Champions League places by now instead of midtable medocracy.

Also I don't know where your coming from saying that we will become another Blackburn just because Hughes is in charge, have you seen City play this season! some of the best attacking football we've seen in years besides we need that Blackburn mentality because we are a bit of a soft touch at the moment so a mix of the two wouldn't go a miss anyways.

And finally just who would you bring in to replace him, Mourinho has already said he wouldn't stay at a club for longer than 3 years so he's a no no. So any other top foreign manager without Premiership experience you care to mention would just be a gamble much like Ramos at Spurs who came with one of the best CVs in europe.

So be careful what you wish for Mike D.

 

[manchester blue]

The abuse some people get on here for sharing their views on MH is out of order.
If people (and there's a load of 'em) want him gone, then thats their right as a supporter to say that.
God knows they have a strong argument to back it up.

On the other hand, those who want him to stay just keep harping on about bloody stability.
Thats a kopout I'm afraid and has no relevance to his performance as a manager thus far.

We'll know when we have the right man, and this guy is not it. Then and only then will we have our beloved "stability".

The reason people jump on it is because they are usually posted straight after a defeat. Unlike this one.

 

[Mike D]

macyman. Great points mate. I've only been watching City for about 32 years but i have seen 137 managers come and go and there is no coincidence in my mind that's why i've also seen us with sod all. Go to the City museum and look at the "roll of honour" of managers since the war and look an the number since 1985 (when Taggart took over the scum). It's plain embarrassing. There have been many times this season that i've thought we had no option but to sack MH (West Brom, Stoke, Allborg - all away of course!) but i keep coming back to that list of managers and despite his obvious failings this season, i really think we've got to give someone time eventually if we are ever going to build success. I was pleased when we got Hughes and i have to say been pleased with most of his signings, so give him another year or two and let him weed out the bad influences and bad defenders and let's see where we go.

Hughes has to be given more time otherwise we will continue doing what we've being doing for the last 33 years regardless how much money is chucked into it. It's no coincidence that the last two managers we had that lasted more than 5 years in the job Mercer & Book both won things for City.
It's also no coincidence that the 5 longest serving Premiership managers occupy 5 of the top 6 places this season and most of these managers had very rocky starts, Taggart, O'Neil, Moyes were all fighting relegation battles in their early years but their clubs stuck by them and look where they are now.
Been said so many times before but STABILITY is the key and until we learn this we are going to suffer many more years of misery.

But again we are banging our heads again the proverbial brick wall because just because you give someone time doesn't mean they will make the team any better. Apart from Moyes, O'Neill, Taggart and Wenger had actually won something before they came to there respective clubs. Its all well and good keep bleating on about STABILITY but you need the right man there or else the whole thing will come tumbling down Ramos at Spuds proves that.

Good signings doesn't and never does make a good manager. And to start rolling out Moyes as a yardstick is hardly a comparable. When Moyes took over Everton didn't have a pot to piss in
were hardly challenging for honours. Don't get me wrong Hughes is a good manager and given time and lots of dough the likelyhood is he'll fashion us into another Blackburn in 2-3 years time and that will be it.

The question is when you are the richest club in the world and real chance to break into the top 4, is medocracy good enough? I like the rest of us who don't see MH as the right man can't see the point of changing managers when eventually do become another Blackburn. I would sooner get the foundations right and build the success with someone who is going to be able to take us to the next level and beyond that.

At the end of the day this is not a matter of chopping and changing to try and buy the success quickly. The reason for change is to get the right man to take us forward in the long term not a quick fix. In the same way a successful PLC appoints a CEO to delivers its strategies ADUG needs to look long and hard to get the right man unfortunatly the man they've inherited isn't up to scratch.

You seem to have forgotten who Spurs sacked to get Ramos as their manager, yes Martin Jol who if you ask most Spurs fans would have him back him back tomorrow if they could and regret the very day they were calling for his head because had they kept him they would definitely be challenging for Champions League places by now instead of midtable medocracy.

Also I don't know where your coming from saying that we will become another Blackburn just because Hughes is in charge, have you seen City play this season! some of the best attacking football we've seen in years besides we need that Blackburn mentality because we are a bit of a soft touch at the moment so a mix of the two wouldn't go a miss anyways.

And finally just who would you bring in to replace him, Mourinho has already said he wouldn't stay at a club for longer than 3 years so he's a no no. So any other top foreign manager without Premiership experience you care to mention would just be a gamble much like Ramos at Spurs who came with one of the best CVs in europe.

So be careful what you wish for Mike D.

From what I have seen from the games I've seen there is a side that is confused players who are not sure of where they are supposed to be. The problem is Hughes has had a full season and for me he still does not know his best 11 home and definatly not away.

In all honesty if/when Hughes goes can you really say hand on heart he has the ability to make us wish we'd kept him? I really don't think so. Some managers are destined for great things where others reach there platuae and are not bad managers just good in certain situations. I can safely say that MH falls into the latter catergory, and that if you regret letting Joe Royle go then no doubt when MH finally gets the boot.

As for Mourinho yes he would be an astute signing whether he would come is questionable, but the problem is we need someone who can take us forward and realise our potential and make this club great. My feeling is we might have to take a gamble with the next man but so be it we can't just accept modeocracy because we are scared of CHANGE and thats not criticism. In most of the places I've worked in the C word does put the fear of god in a lot of people. But its time we thought about the future and exacly where we should be right now