MY union fights for my standard of living, and have done in the past. Change is needed, that's simply not up for debate. How exactly that change should be implimented, and specifically what that change should be ARE up for debate. The unions and the government need to meet halfway on this, via negotiation. There seems to be no willingness, from either party, to do so.George Hannah said:I'm really glad you said that. Do you also see that the civil servants losing their pay in the strike today are trying to defend your and their standard of living? The distinction between public and private in this debate is utterly meaningless. When Thatcher crushed the unions it was just the start of the dismantling of the welfare state. Everyone should get behind the few unions that are left, they are the only protection for the overwhelming majority in perilous economic times.Matty said:I'm not really sure you've fully grasped this. You are aware that teachers are just one of many public sector jobs affected, right?
I don't disagree with the sentiments of those striking, they are being asked to work harder, for longer, with less financial reward, and an inferior pension to the one they currently have, no-one is ever going to be happy about those things. The issue I have is that there seems to be no consideration being given to the undeniable (or, at least, it SHOULD be undeniable) fact that these changes are necessary due to the social and economical climate we find ourselves in. The status quo is not a viable option, some change is required. There's probably error on both sides, the government are dictating, not discussing, and the unions are digging their heals in rather than suggesting sensible compromises.
Yeah I work at the cjc county court,in the court service we are having courts shut down,fines office centralized,all this means more travelling for the public to get the help they need,what's going on is affecting the public as well as the workersmackenzie said:Can I just say a big thank you to those who posted on here offering their support. It matters a great deal that some recognise that this is a matter of a bigger picture. I like my job, believe it or not, and I want to be able to do it in a way that isn't devalued.
nicholasjackson said:Yeah I work at the cjc county court,in the court service we are having courts shut down,fines office centralized,all this means more travelling for the public to get the help they need,what's going on is affecting the public as well as the workersmackenzie said:Can I just say a big thank you to those who posted on here offering their support. It matters a great deal that some recognise that this is a matter of a bigger picture. I like my job, believe it or not, and I want to be able to do it in a way that isn't devalued.
Blue Punter said:Matty said:mackenzie said:In that case they can review the shite pay I've had for the last 32 years, the salary I accepted on the understanding that there were certain compensations eg a decent pension.
If I start to pay more towards that pension then they can compensate me by paying some arrears on that shite salary.
Works both ways, but of course that won't happen.
The assumption there is that you had the option of getting a superior salary elsewhere. In the main it's a myth that the private sector is filled with high salaries when compared to those offered by the public sector. Your average private sector employee will be struggling along on a not great salary, whilst having to accept wage freezes and changes to pensions/terms and conditions just like your average public sector employee.
From my experience, I have to say that's absolute bollocks. I know plenty of people in the private sector and on average they earn more than people with similar roles in the public sector. Not to mention other perks and freebies such as business lunches, racetrips, private boxes and all sorts of corporate hospitality offered up under the guise of entertaining.
I started in the Civil Service in 1998 as a graduate on a 3 month fixed appointment. The annual salary for that post was £7,800. In comparison to similar clerical jobs in the private sector, it was the lowest paid job by far in the job centre. At the time, the pension wasn't a great incentive to me, I was only supposed to be there 3 months as a stopgap. But I soon deduced from colleagues how important it was to them. It was something that had been agreed and in some way offset the disadvantage of the low wages many people were on.
chabal said:Blue Punter said:Matty said:The assumption there is that you had the option of getting a superior salary elsewhere. In the main it's a myth that the private sector is filled with high salaries when compared to those offered by the public sector. Your average private sector employee will be struggling along on a not great salary, whilst having to accept wage freezes and changes to pensions/terms and conditions just like your average public sector employee.
From my experience, I have to say that's absolute bollocks. I know plenty of people in the private sector and on average they earn more than people with similar roles in the public sector. Not to mention other perks and freebies such as business lunches, racetrips, private boxes and all sorts of corporate hospitality offered up under the guise of entertaining.
I started in the Civil Service in 1998 as a graduate on a 3 month fixed appointment. The annual salary for that post was £7,800. In comparison to similar clerical jobs in the private sector, it was the lowest paid job by far in the job centre. At the time, the pension wasn't a great incentive to me, I was only supposed to be there 3 months as a stopgap. But I soon deduced from colleagues how important it was to them. It was something that had been agreed and in some way offset the disadvantage of the low wages many people were on.
6 years ago when I was still working in the public sector I commissioned and independent agency to compare the salaries and benefits of a wide range of organisations and a wide range of jobs.
The agency compared similar jobs (i.e. same "size", scope, responsibility etc) and then looked at the rewards (i.e salery, bonuses, holidays, company car etc but not incl. pensions). Severla hundred jobs over 200 organisations were looked at.
There were all sorts of exceptions but the general conclusion was that lower graded/lower qualified jobs tended to get better rewards in the public sector. The gap tended to narrow up to the first line supervisor level but after that the private sector was significantly better rewarded and the bigger the job became the bigger the size of the gap between the two.
Is that you Francis maude? To be fair I don't take notice of his pay but tbf he travels all over visiting branches,he came to north west AGM last year,always represents us well in media,he run rings round Francis maude last year,even john snow was takin pissPrestwich_Blue said:When the PCSU General Secretary Mark Serwotka stood for election in 2000, he pledged that be would only accept the equivalent of an average civil servant's wage if elected.
In 2011 his total remuneration package was over£125,000. So all civil servants are obviously well off.
Loukas said:Hope everyone who had the day off today enjoyed it.