Terry racism trial, this is going to get nasty

[BoyBlue_1985]

Context is relevant, I call my team-mates cnuts all day long when I play sport. It's a badge of honour most of the time, however I wouldn't call an opposition player a cnut, unless he did something really out of order.

Ultimately Terry is susposed to be a responsible role model (What a joke) and shouldn't be using racial slurs. Call Anton a ****, he is. But it is unacceptable to bring race/religion/sexuality whatever into it.

Why is he ? he didnt choose to be... he just grew up playing football and became very good at it , i dont like the tag footballers are supposed to be role models because there not - there paid to play football[/quote]


When his salary is paid by parents buying their kids shirts with Terry on the back he is a role model. When he is captain of his national football team, he is a role model. When you take millions of pounds from companies to represent their brand you are a role model.

He didn't choose to be a role model, but he is one, it's not his choice whether kids look up to him.[/quote]

Its also his choice if he wants to be a role model or not. He doesnt have to be he does not force anyone to pay him anything. If his salary is paid by kids with Terry on his back he would be making less than me a year. Sky invented the beast he just takes advantage of it

 

[Matty]

The most salient point has to be that AF has stated he did not here what JT said on the pitch, therefore he cannot have been offended by it.

His partner on viewing the replay highlighted the incident to AF and then he becomes offended, but he still does not know what is said so is obviously assuming, forming an opinion not fact as he didn't hear anything.

Is there another motive in this? Why did he become so upset?

Not defending JT but surely this is nonsense and affecting the game we all love.

Not judging AF but surely could and should have been handled at the time.

People seem to be missing the point here. Anton Ferdinand is the man who the alleged racist abuse was aimed at, however whether he personally heard it at the time or not isn't all that relevant. It wasn't Ferdinand who brought the abuse to the attention of the police and made the official complaint, it was a member of the public present in the stand that day who claims to have seen/heard the racist comments.

Think of it this way, if you have an argument at work with a black colleague and then, when his back is turned and he is walking away, call him a "black c*nt" then that is a racist comment. If he fails to hear the comment it doesn't make it any less racist. If another colleague, regardless of colour, overhears the comment then they can complain that they found it unacceptable, racist, distressing etc, and again they are fully within their rights to do so. That, in a nutshell, is what has happened here (transplant "colleague" for "fan" or "customer").

 

[Blue Hefner]

Context is relevant, I call my team-mates cnuts all day long when I play sport. It's a badge of honour most of the time, however I wouldn't call an opposition player a cnut, unless he did something really out of order.

Ultimately Terry is susposed to be a responsible role model (What a joke) and shouldn't be using racial slurs. Call Anton a ****, he is. But it is unacceptable to bring race/religion/sexuality whatever into it.

Why is he ? he didnt choose to be... he just grew up playing football and became very good at it , i dont like the tag footballers are supposed to be role models because there not - there paid to play football

They are paid very well and get described as 'hero' or 'captain marvel' for clearing a ball off the line or putting in a tackle. If the are happy to accept this sort of praise then they have to at least be aware that to children they are role models. If I had children I wouldn't want them to look up to footballers but its a fact of life that children do look up to them[/quote]


Again, he doesnt choose to have people calling him a hero, he gets paid by a club to play football, in his contract it doesnt say be a role model for children.[/quote]

But like I said, if he is happy to take all the praise than he has to be aware that children will look up to him. It doesn't matter what he wants or that he didn't choose it, it comes with the territory.

 

[BlueHammer85]

The most salient point has to be that AF has stated he did not here what JT said on the pitch, therefore he cannot have been offended by it.

His partner on viewing the replay highlighted the incident to AF and then he becomes offended, but he still does not know what is said so is obviously assuming, forming an opinion not fact as he didn't hear anything.

Is there another motive in this? Why did he become so upset?

Not defending JT but surely this is nonsense and affecting the game we all love.

Not judging AF but surely could and should have been handled at the time.

People seem to be missing the point here. Anton Ferdinand is the man who the alleged racist abuse was aimed at, however whether he personally heard it at the time or not isn't all that relevant. It wasn't Ferdinand who brought the abuse to the attention of the police and made the official complaint, it was a member of the public present in the stand that day who claims to have seen/heard the racist comments.

Think of it this way, if you have an argument at work with a black colleague and then, when his back is turned and he is walking away, call him a "black c*nt" then that is a racist comment. If he fails to hear the comment it doesn't make it any less racist. If another colleague, regardless of colour, overhears the comment then they can complain that they found it unacceptable, racist, distressing etc, and again they are fully within their rights to do so. That, in a nutshell, is what has happened here (transplant "colleague" for "fan" or "customer").

Ok... but what if you said '' did he just think i called him a black cu*t ?! '' behind his back

And the colleague only heard ''black cu*t''

Context is the issue here

 

[Coljj]

Prosecution about to cross-examine Terry next.

I hope they go after about the Bridge affair and he is made to squirm. It would contradict his claim that it doesn't bother him if he looks uncomfortable talking about it.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Context is relevant, I call my team-mates cnuts all day long when I play sport. It's a badge of honour most of the time, however I wouldn't call an opposition player a cnut, unless he did something really out of order.

Ultimately Terry is susposed to be a responsible role model (What a joke) and shouldn't be using racial slurs. Call Anton a ****, he is. But it is unacceptable to bring race/religion/sexuality whatever into it.

Why is he ? he didnt choose to be... he just grew up playing football and became very good at it , i dont like the tag footballers are supposed to be role models because there not - there paid to play football

They are paid very well and get described as 'hero' or 'captain marvel' for clearing a ball off the line or putting in a tackle. If the are happy to accept this sort of praise then they have to at least be aware that to children they are role models. If I had children I wouldn't want them to look up to footballers but its a fact of life that children do look up to them

Again, he doesnt choose to have people calling him a hero, he gets paid by a club to play football, in his contract it doesnt say be a role model for children.[/quote]

But like I said, if he is happy to take all the praise than he has to be aware that children will look up to him. It doesn't matter what he wants or that he didn't choose it, it comes with the territory.[/quote]


He may or may not be happy with the praise he gets, he doesnt demand it , he would still be playing football if he wasnt worshipped. Should Ballotelli not be going into clubs smoking a shisa pipe , drinking champagne with scantily clad women around him -Plenty of people worship, is that a good role model for kids ?

 

[stony]

John Terry's defence

 

[Matty]

The most salient point has to be that AF has stated he did not here what JT said on the pitch, therefore he cannot have been offended by it.

His partner on viewing the replay highlighted the incident to AF and then he becomes offended, but he still does not know what is said so is obviously assuming, forming an opinion not fact as he didn't hear anything.

Is there another motive in this? Why did he become so upset?

Not defending JT but surely this is nonsense and affecting the game we all love.

Not judging AF but surely could and should have been handled at the time.

People seem to be missing the point here. Anton Ferdinand is the man who the alleged racist abuse was aimed at, however whether he personally heard it at the time or not isn't all that relevant. It wasn't Ferdinand who brought the abuse to the attention of the police and made the official complaint, it was a member of the public present in the stand that day who claims to have seen/heard the racist comments.

Think of it this way, if you have an argument at work with a black colleague and then, when his back is turned and he is walking away, call him a "black c*nt" then that is a racist comment. If he fails to hear the comment it doesn't make it any less racist. If another colleague, regardless of colour, overhears the comment then they can complain that they found it unacceptable, racist, distressing etc, and again they are fully within their rights to do so. That, in a nutshell, is what has happened here (transplant "colleague" for "fan" or "customer").

Ok... but what if you said '' did he just think i called him a black cu*t ?! '' behind his back

And the colleague only heard ''black cu*t''

Context is the issue here

Has anyone actually asked the question "Why the hell did Terry, as he claims, think Ferdinand might have thought he'd been called a black c*nt"? Ferdinand clearly at the time had no clue so can't have given the impression he believed he'd been racially abused, so what lead Terry to think Ferdinand thought he had been?

This whole thing smells like a cover up. If I were a betting man I'd wager the actual series of events that unfolded that day are as follows:-

1 - Terry gets abused regarding shagging Bridge's ex.

2 - Terry makes a racial comment about Ferdinand in the heat of the moment.

3 - Terry regrets comment, mainly due to worry about how he will be punished for it.

4 - Terry isn't certain if Ferdinand heard the comment as he didn't react at the time in a manner that would lead you to believe he had heard it, however he can't risk the fact he might have heard it.

5 - Terry lies to Cashley, telling him he believes Ferdinand thinks he's been racial abused but nothing actually happened, I'm innocent guv, it's all a misunderstanding, basically a sub story to get Cashley, who it is by no means a coincidence is black (he could have gone to Lampard over this but having a black player in his corner helps his cause here) on his side.

6 - Cashley is thick/gullible and buys it. He goes to Ferdinand to find out what he knows.

7 - Ferdinand has no idea Terry abused him racially so reacts in a truthful manner and says as such.

8 - Terry is happy at this stage, as he believes he's now got Cashley as backup should Ferdinand "change his story" later. Ferdinand has said, in front of a witness, a black witness at that, that he didn't hear any racist abuse.

9 - Ferdinand later realises, from video footage, that Terry actually did abuse him.

10 - Terry's nicely concocted story and defence is ruined by a member of the public spotting him racially abusing Ferdinand and complaining to the police.

11 - Ferdinand is asked to give his version now to the police and tells them what happened, including his later realisation he had actually been racially abused.

 

[SWP's back]

People seem to be missing the point here. Anton Ferdinand is the man who the alleged racist abuse was aimed at, however whether he personally heard it at the time or not isn't all that relevant. It wasn't Ferdinand who brought the abuse to the attention of the police and made the official complaint, it was a member of the public present in the stand that day who claims to have seen/heard the racist comments.

Think of it this way, if you have an argument at work with a black colleague and then, when his back is turned and he is walking away, call him a "black c*nt" then that is a racist comment. If he fails to hear the comment it doesn't make it any less racist. If another colleague, regardless of colour, overhears the comment then they can complain that they found it unacceptable, racist, distressing etc, and again they are fully within their rights to do so. That, in a nutshell, is what has happened here (transplant "colleague" for "fan" or "customer").

Ok... but what if you said '' did he just think i called him a black cu*t ?! '' behind his back

And the colleague only heard ''black cu*t''

Context is the issue here

Has anyone actually asked the question "Why the hell did Terry, as he claims, think Ferdinand might have thought he'd been called a black c*nt"? Ferdinand clearly at the time had no clue so can't have given the impression he believed he'd been racially abused, so what lead Terry to think Ferdinand thought he had been?

This whole thing smells like a cover up. If I were a betting man I'd wager the actual series of events that unfolded that day are as follows:-

1 - Terry gets abused regarding shagging Bridge's ex.

2 - Terry makes a racial comment about Ferdinand in the heat of the moment.

3 - Terry regrets comment, mainly due to worry about how he will be punished for it.

4 - Terry isn't certain if Ferdinand heard the comment as he didn't react at the time in a manner that would lead you to believe he had heard it, however he can't risk the fact he might have heard it.

5 - Terry lies to Cashley, telling him he believes Ferdinand thinks he's been racial abused but nothing actually happened, I'm innocent guv, it's all a misunderstanding, basically a sub story to get Cashley, who it is by no means a coincidence is black (he could have gone to Lampard over this but having a black player in his corner helps his cause here) on his side.

6 - Cashley is thick/gullible and buys it. He goes to Ferdinand to find out what he knows.

7 - Ferdinand has no idea Terry abused him racially so reacts in a truthful manner and says as such.

8 - Terry is happy at this stage, as he believes he's now got Cashley as backup should Ferdinand "change his story" later. Ferdinand has said, in front of a witness, a black witness at that, that he didn't hear any racist abuse.

9 - Ferdinand later realises, from video footage, that Terry actually did abuse him.

10 - Terry's nicely concocted story and defence is ruined by a member of the public spotting him racially abusing Ferdinand and complaining to the police.

11 - Ferdinand is asked to give his version now to the police and tells them what happened, including his later realisation he had actually been racially abused.

You think that is easier to believe than someone mishearing someone else during an ongoing argument in a game of football with 25k fans making a lot of noise?

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

People seem to be missing the point here. Anton Ferdinand is the man who the alleged racist abuse was aimed at, however whether he personally heard it at the time or not isn't all that relevant. It wasn't Ferdinand who brought the abuse to the attention of the police and made the official complaint, it was a member of the public present in the stand that day who claims to have seen/heard the racist comments.

Think of it this way, if you have an argument at work with a black colleague and then, when his back is turned and he is walking away, call him a "black c*nt" then that is a racist comment. If he fails to hear the comment it doesn't make it any less racist. If another colleague, regardless of colour, overhears the comment then they can complain that they found it unacceptable, racist, distressing etc, and again they are fully within their rights to do so. That, in a nutshell, is what has happened here (transplant "colleague" for "fan" or "customer").

Ok... but what if you said '' did he just think i called him a black cu*t ?! '' behind his back

And the colleague only heard ''black cu*t''

Context is the issue here

Has anyone actually asked the question "Why the hell did Terry, as he claims, think Ferdinand might have thought he'd been called a black c*nt"? Ferdinand clearly at the time had no clue so can't have given the impression he believed he'd been racially abused, so what lead Terry to think Ferdinand thought he had been?

This whole thing smells like a cover up. If I were a betting man I'd wager the actual series of events that unfolded that day are as follows:-

1 - Terry gets abused regarding shagging Bridge's ex.

2 - Terry makes a racial comment about Ferdinand in the heat of the moment.

3 - Terry regrets comment, mainly due to worry about how he will be punished for it.

4 - Terry isn't certain if Ferdinand heard the comment as he didn't react at the time in a manner that would lead you to believe he had heard it, however he can't risk the fact he might have heard it.

5 - Terry lies to Cashley, telling him he believes Ferdinand thinks he's been racial abused but nothing actually happened, I'm innocent guv, it's all a misunderstanding, basically a sub story to get Cashley, who it is by no means a coincidence is black (he could have gone to Lampard over this but having a black player in his corner helps his cause here) on his side.

6 - Cashley is thick/gullible and buys it. He goes to Ferdinand to find out what he knows.

7 - Ferdinand has no idea Terry abused him racially so reacts in a truthful manner and says as such.

8 - Terry is happy at this stage, as he believes he's now got Cashley as backup should Ferdinand "change his story" later. Ferdinand has said, in front of a witness, a black witness at that, that he didn't hear any racist abuse.

9 - Ferdinand later realises, from video footage, that Terry actually did abuse him.

10 - Terry's nicely concocted story and defence is ruined by a member of the public spotting him racially abusing Ferdinand and complaining to the police.

11 - Ferdinand is asked to give his version now to the police and tells them what happened, including his later realisation he had actually been racially abused.

He managed to think most of that through while concentrating on playing a football game at the highest level. That is some human being