Terry racism trial, this is going to get nasty

[Blue Hefner]

Without getting bogged down with hypothetical examples, my opinion is quite straightforward.

JT should not be using that sort of language on a football pitch, end of story. I don't care about context and I don't care about heat of the moment, he's a grown man and if he can't control himself then that's his problem and if he cant wait til half/full-time to put the record straight then again he only has himself to blame

That's not what you originally said though is it. Its more clear now. The grown man argument is a flawed one as nearly all football players to something stupid on the football pitch. You are calling him a racist also before he has been judged to be guilty or not

Who's fault is that, like I said he needs to take responsibility for his actions.

I might be wrong but I don't believe that I called Terry a racist.

What I have said consistently is that if you use that sort of language, people will get offended and you will more than likely be reprimanded for it, whether that be the work place, home/social life or like in this case a football pitch in front of thousands of people

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

Without getting bogged down with hypothetical examples, my opinion is quite straightforward.

JT should not be using that sort of language on a football pitch, end of story. I don't care about context and I don't care about heat of the moment, he's a grown man and if he can't control himself then that's his problem and if he cant wait til half/full-time to put the record straight then again he only has himself to blame

That's not what you originally said though is it. Its more clear now. The grown man argument is a flawed one as nearly all football players to something stupid on the football pitch. You are calling him a racist also before he has been judged to be guilty or not

Who's fault is that, like I said he needs to take responsibility for his actions.

I might be wrong but I don't believe that I called Terry a racist.

What I have said consistently is that if you use that sort of language, people will get offended and you will more than likely be reprimanded for it, whether that be the work place, home/social life or like in this case a football pitch in front of thousands of people

So everyone saying it in the court room should be charged with using racist language then, how else is he supposed to ask him if he thought he said that, he cant blank himself out, in that case it makes no sense?

 

[Blue Hefner]

That's not what you originally said though is it. Its more clear now. The grown man argument is a flawed one as nearly all football players to something stupid on the football pitch. You are calling him a racist also before he has been judged to be guilty or not

Who's fault is that, like I said he needs to take responsibility for his actions.

I might be wrong but I don't believe that I called Terry a racist.

What I have said consistently is that if you use that sort of language, people will get offended and you will more than likely be reprimanded for it, whether that be the work place, home/social life or like in this case a football pitch in front of thousands of people

So everyone saying it in the court room should be charged with using racist language then, how else is he supposed to ask him if he thought he said that, he cant blank himself out, in that case it makes no sense?

Of course not!

 

[twinkletoes]

It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

Good lord we agree on something

Law of averages says we have to.

 

[Chipmeister]

The most salient point has to be that AF has stated he did not here what JT said on the pitch, therefore he cannot have been offended by it.

His partner on viewing the replay highlighted the incident to AF and then he becomes offended, but he still does not know what is said so is obviously assuming, forming an opinion not fact as he didn't hear anything.

Is there another motive in this? Why did he become so upset?

Not defending JT but surely this is nonsense and affecting the game we all love.

Not judging AF but surely could and should have been handled at the time.

 

[SWP's back]

Cheers for that DB, appreciated.

Some things still trouble me though, I'm still trying to get my head around a couple of things, maybe they haven't been addressed yet (but will in time), but it seems Ferdinand is saying he was unaware of that 'fuckin black ****' conversation on the pitch, if that's the case, then what was said to cause Terry to reply using those words, regardless of whether it being 'Fuckin black ****' or 'fuckin black **** ?', if Ferdinand (is claiming he ) had no knowledge, then there would be no reason to say it, the conversation just doesn't add up, it's like someone asking you what time the next bus is and you reply "Cauliflowers are two for a quid in Asda".

The other thing, I'm sure at some point early on after this incident, something was said along the lines that Terry claims he actually said 'fuckin BLIND ****', my memory's pretty hazy there though, could well be something I read on an internet forum so not sure how true that is.

If both the above are an accurate account, then it sounds to me like Terry (like many other defendants) has gone for the old 'muddy the waters as much as possible approach' so that somewhere along the line they can raise a reasonable doubt into the whole situation, and I think it may work.

As far as I'm aware, Terry never claimed to have said 'blind ****', although it was debated endlessly on here and many other forums at the time.

In hindsight, it looks like he's attempting to muddy the waters, but the immediacy of him contacting AF at full-time to address the issue supports the notion that he was genuinely taken aback by the (phantom?) accusation that he'd said something racist.

Had he been alerted by his agent that the incriminating video was doing the rounds and told to concoct this story? Well, they were very quick off the mark if that was the case. Or maybe he knew he'd said something wrong so decided off his own back to come up with an excuse in anticipation of it being spotted by the cameras. But is he really that bright? I doubt it.

Alternatively, he's simply telling the truth and genuinely believed such an accusation had been made. I have no idea how he came to the conclusion that such an allegation had been levelled at him (that will surely have to be addressed), but his actions immediately after the game are those of someone who genuinely believes they've been wronged.

It's a strange one, and if Terry is making all this up, he's played an absolute blinder.

I tend to think he is telling the truth tbh.<br /><br />-- Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:12 pm --<br /><br />

Yes, it does. Context is everything when dealing with potentially racist language.

Not sure who alerted the authorities, to be honest. But as the conversation involved Anton Ferdinand, his views on the matter are obviously important.

My understanding, I'm by no means legal so feel free to correct me is a member of the public complained after JT called Af 'a fucking black ****'. Now what difference does it make to that member of the pubic who took offence the context of the conversation/shouting match between AF and JT????

He used that language, people got offended, he's guilty as far as I'm concerned

Blimey if that proves guilt than most of the population is in trouble

It is also not against the law to offend. Luckily.

 

[BlueHammer85]

[/quote]

Context is relevant, I call my team-mates cnuts all day long when I play sport. It's a badge of honour most of the time, however I wouldn't call an opposition player a cnut, unless he did something really out of order.

Ultimately Terry is susposed to be a responsible role model (What a joke) and shouldn't be using racial slurs. Call Anton a ****, he is. But it is unacceptable to bring race/religion/sexuality whatever into it.[/quote]


Why is he ? he didnt choose to be... he just grew up playing football and became very good at it , i dont like the tag footballers are supposed to be role models because there not - there paid to play football

 

[Blue Hefner]

Context is relevant, I call my team-mates cnuts all day long when I play sport. It's a badge of honour most of the time, however I wouldn't call an opposition player a cnut, unless he did something really out of order.

Ultimately Terry is susposed to be a responsible role model (What a joke) and shouldn't be using racial slurs. Call Anton a ****, he is. But it is unacceptable to bring race/religion/sexuality whatever into it.[/quote]


Why is he ? he didnt choose to be... he just grew up playing football and became very good at it , i dont like the tag footballers are supposed to be role models because there not - there paid to play football[/quote]

They are paid very well and get described as 'hero' or 'captain marvel' for clearing a ball off the line or putting in a tackle. If the are happy to accept this sort of praise then they have to at least be aware that to children they are role models. If I had children I wouldn't want them to look up to footballers but its a fact of life that children do look up to them

 

[The_mace]

Context is relevant, I call my team-mates cnuts all day long when I play sport. It's a badge of honour most of the time, however I wouldn't call an opposition player a cnut, unless he did something really out of order.

Ultimately Terry is susposed to be a responsible role model (What a joke) and shouldn't be using racial slurs. Call Anton a ****, he is. But it is unacceptable to bring race/religion/sexuality whatever into it.[/quote]


Why is he ? he didnt choose to be... he just grew up playing football and became very good at it , i dont like the tag footballers are supposed to be role models because there not - there paid to play football[/quote]


When his salary is paid by parents buying their kids shirts with Terry on the back he is a role model. When he is captain of his national football team, he is a role model. When you take millions of pounds from companies to represent their brand you are a role model.

He didn't choose to be a role model, but he is one, it's not his choice whether kids look up to him.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Context is relevant, I call my team-mates cnuts all day long when I play sport. It's a badge of honour most of the time, however I wouldn't call an opposition player a cnut, unless he did something really out of order.

Ultimately Terry is susposed to be a responsible role model (What a joke) and shouldn't be using racial slurs. Call Anton a ****, he is. But it is unacceptable to bring race/religion/sexuality whatever into it.

Why is he ? he didnt choose to be... he just grew up playing football and became very good at it , i dont like the tag footballers are supposed to be role models because there not - there paid to play football[/quote]

They are paid very well and get described as 'hero' or 'captain marvel' for clearing a ball off the line or putting in a tackle. If the are happy to accept this sort of praise then they have to at least be aware that to children they are role models. If I had children I wouldn't want them to look up to footballers but its a fact of life that children do look up to them[/quote]


Again, he doesnt choose to have people calling him a hero, he gets paid by a club to play football, in his contract it doesnt say be a role model for children.