The Boxing thread

Freddy Roach is the forgotten hero in all of this. Without his outburst I'm sure Fury would have just carried on before. Roach gave him the idea that he has a lot more to offer than just slip and slide and that he hurt Wilder in the first fight and could have taken him out if he'd gone for it.

Although Lee and Sugar hill are geniuses. The way Fury threw big right hands whilst falling forward and using his left hand to tie up Wilder's right was so impressive.
Fury fighting aggresivley on the front foot is not a new thing he has done this before, especially against physically smaller men have a look at his fight with Steve Cunningham (who was a similar weight and build to Wilder), he got dropped early in that fight because he was pissing around, but it woke him up, he then piled on the pressure went on the front foot and basically smothered him with his shear size and presence leading to him finally nailing Cunningham with a right that really wasn't a power shot as such,
The physical size of Fury is a big problem for 99% of fighters he comes up against I say 99% because I'm still waiting for the other 1% if they're out there
 
I think your under rating Usyk he has been brilliant in the fights he has boxed at Cruiserweight. Out almost all of last year with 1 fight at heavyweight. Usyk is mandatory for AJs WBO title he might well be avoided for by both guys as he is the guy that could well be this generation Hollyfield moving up the weights to win a World title or 2. I rate Usyk highly. Just needs to stay active in 2020. Be out in March i think this year against who is yet to be sorted.
I agree with most of that, it's rare to see the head movement and mobility Fury has for his size but when people are saying Usyk's boxing skills are something else, it's nothing to do with his size, it's based purely on his skill. This is a guy who got sent home from sparring for making Wlad(a younger Wlad) look bad in front of the media in camp. He could make the step up but he still has to prove he can mix it with some of these giants when it matters.

Fury has added some power but it's still not Wilder or AJ level power, it's also worth noting how easy Wilder was to hit when in range and how poor his defence was. That's not at all what the puzzle will be against Usyk, he'll show people what real elite footwork looks like from a heavyweight when he gets going and ring IQ for that mater.

That said, giving up that much height, weight and reach is still a huge handicap. Lewis vs Holyfield springs to mind, Holyfield did great against Tyson but Lewis should have had 2 wins over him. I really don't know how Usky will do against AJ or Fury, he's a totally different fighter in style to Holyfield afterall.

There is that saying, that a good larger fighter beats a good smaller fighter, but that's if they are of equal skill(or close to it) and I don't think Fury or AJ are anywhere near him on the skills personally but will that be enough, can he make them respect his own power? If he starts knocking people out at HW then it really gets interesting.
 
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I could give plenty of reasons why I think that post is rubbish but lets just agree to disagree.

I will have to point out though, Ruiz Jr has not fought Wilder and Ruiz is a much younger, more credible opponent than Ortiz is, who you confused him with. Watch the Parker vs Ruiz Jr fight if you can find it on youtube, two very good young fighters, good skill, good power. All seen long before they faced AJ, yet when he beats anyone they become trash. It's really sad how people can't see how bad for boxing that is. Looking forward to seeing both of them bounce back this year personally, maybe even against Wilder.

Yes Ortiz is who Im thinking of a truly one paced fighter. Regardless, AJ is chinny and was on his bike and looked suspect everytime a woefully out of shape Ruiz connected. Still he has the discipline to stick to the game plan. Aside of mistaking Ortiz for Ruiz why is my post rubbish?
 
Oleksandr Usyk is the 1 in the heavyweight division I am waiting for to be pushed up to the title fights. I think he is mandatory for a World Title shot in 1 of belts think it is the WBC title as he was the Cruiserweight champion and moved up to heavyweight they got some ruling giving the Cruiserweight champion a mandatory fight with the Heavyweight champion. Him against either Fury or AJ I would fancy him doing well if he can take there shots I feel he might have too much for both.

Hahahahahahahhahahaha
 
I saw Usyk against Chaz Witherspoon, he may sneak a title, but Parker, Whyte, AJ and TF, are all younger and would have no problem with him at Heavyweight. A big powerful cruiserweight, but not a powerful heavyweight.
 
Yes Ortiz is who Im thinking of a truly one paced fighter. Regardless, AJ is chinny and was on his bike and looked suspect everytime a woefully out of shape Ruiz connected. Still he has the discipline to stick to the game plan. Aside of mistaking Ortiz for Ruiz why is my post rubbish?
Can you not just agree to disagree? I said I could but I can see the type of convo it's going to be. Enjoy the win.
 
Can you not just agree to disagree? I said I could but I can see the type of convo it's going to be. Enjoy the win.

No, you said my post was rubbish, but you cant explain why, if you don't want to explain your comment, why call it rubbish in the first place?
 
No, you said my post was rubbish, but you cant explain why, if you don't want to explain your comment, why call it rubbish in the first place?
I actually did answer it but then edited it to a much shorter reply because it does seem that you've made your mind up anyway. But since you insisted...

Calling AJ chinny is way too far(granted it's not as good as Ruiz Jr's chin but who's is?), would you call Wilder chinny since he's been stopped now? I wouldn't but I knew it wasn't as good as it was hyped up to be. Simply by some of the times he's been rocked before. He was knocked out cold in sparring against Wlad, he was rocked by Molina(who AJ handled no problem) as well Ortiz of course, who came close to stopping him before Fury actually did it, even Breazeale rocked him(another guy who didn't trouble AJ) before the Ortiz rematch. Off topic but did you notice the ref trying to buy Wilder as much time as possible, taking a point off Fury, while telling him off etc? That's twice I've seen that tactic in Wilder fights.

Anyone can get hurt or knocked out in boxing but you can't say chinny when the only people who have rocked AJ, do actually have decent power. That's not how it works. You can't say Whyte doesn't have power, you definitely can't say Wlad doesn't have power(or any man with 53KOs on his record) and he caught him with that straight right that has done the job on so many fighters before(it's better than his left hook for me). He got up, may have been on wobbly legs but who wouldn't be? Povetkin is another known puncher who was landing clean on the inside, he felt them but he was never even rocked in that fight. Ruiz Jr does have power and lightning fast hands, but it was the shots behind the head that did the damage in the 3rd and the 7th, the rest was accumulation of heavy shots, it was never one shot that put him down. In fact in the 7th AJ ate a clean shot on the chin in an exchange and it didn't phase him, which IMO was when Ruiz Jr decided to go back to the punch that did the damage in the 3rd. Smart but dirty.

AJ being predictable is also off the mark because he's beaten too many top ranked guys for that to have any credence. You don't beat all those guys, some very accomplished and experienced guys if you're predictable(AJ hasn't been fighting journeymen his whole career like some). He's a student of the sport, the sweet science if you will. Wilder has shown none of that, he fell in love with that right hand power long ago(10+ years), he barely talks about past boxers, doesn't seem to respect the history etc. I suppose he doesn't have to but it shows the mentality. People draw inspiration off past great boxers, if they are constantly looking to improve.

It doesn't get much more predictable than Wilder, he's looking for one punch the whole fight, the jab is merely a range finder or a deterrent at best for him. AJ definitely has shown that willingness to add more to his game all along, which is why the schooling he gave Ruiz Jr was no surprise to me. I still think he will go back and do a 3rd fight to avenge the stoppage but nobody is in a rush to see that yet. Ruiz Jr hasn't shown much encouragement so far unfortunately, of a willingness to redeem himself, for coming in heavy, then using that as an excuse. Especially when he accurately predicted AJ's fight plan: "he will move around the ring more but we have a plan for that" what plan was that then Andy? IMO coming in heavy was all so he had an excuse. I like him but that was poor and so are some of his fight tactics. He has his strengths but footwork and head movement have never been among them.

Wilder always has a punchers chance but he's nowhere near the boxer AJ is. I don't know if anyone noticed the way AJ was throwing the jab in the Ruiz Jr rematch was very similar to the Kronk jab. It was snapping Ruiz Jrs head back much like Fury's was on Wilder. One of his trainers talked about that after the fight. AJ has shown a better defence than Wilder, who thinks leaning back with a weak guard will be enough to get out of the way of a fighter stepping forward at you. AJ did make similar mistakes in the first Ruiz Jr fight but how much of that was about him not being with it from the end of the 3rd round? The footwork wasn't all new to AJ who was GB olympic trained, they work on all of that, he went back to basics and took it up a gear. AJ doesn't have amazing head movement but it's at least better than Wilder's as is his guard. It's rare a fighter adds head movement later on his career but you never know, wouldn't put it past someone like AJ, very dedicated to say the least.

I will leave it at that, this is why I deleted it the first time around because the post was getting too long. I'm actually happy for Fury and don't feel the need to bash him at this point. I don't get the AJ hate personally but that's just me.
 
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