The Conservative Party

[denislawsbackheel]

Gov.uk says:

When you stop paying​

If you’re employed, you stop paying Class 1 National Insurance when you reach the State Pension age.

The thresholds for when you start to pay tax and NIC have always been different, NIC being the lower figure. Currently, you pay PAYE tax on ANY income/earnings of £12500pa. This include any pensions you may have. The totals are lumped together, and anything over the £12500 are subject to PAYE tax. State pensions are paid gross, so the tax is taken off your other earnings. The tax code reflects this by taking off the value of the state pension from your £12500 allowance, the balance being your code number (with the last digit removed). Tax is then applied to your main source source of income.
As mentioned above, NIC does not apply to people over the state pension age - unless those rules were changed yesterday (I haven't checked). Currently, if you earn at or more than £184 per week, you start paying NIC (unless you're a state pensioner). If you earn £183.99 per week, you don't pay it.

Hope this helps. (I was a former PAYE/NIC Auditor / Compliance Officer in the Revenue for over 20 years)

I know all that.
Furthermore any pensioner does not pay NI.
I retired early in my early 50s. Stopped paying NI immediately on my company pension.
In fact I had to make voluntary NI payments to make sure I got the full state pension when I reached 65.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

i think a lot of people are concentrating on the extra 1.25% points on NI in their pay packet (as is their right), but i think the conversation now has to centre on the equalisation of rates in care homes - that is private and council paying users in care homes (private pay more). If the council pay more to equalise rates, using this NI hike, then more money is going into care home coffers. Then it becomes an issue of will the care homes use that to better social care and the jobs within, or increase profit margins.... i seriously hope this isnt further appropriation of public money and something good can come from this.

Unless a lot more local authority care homes or cheap private care homes are built this solves nothing.
The govt will not make up the difference to private care home rates and private care homes will, like now, just not take LA funded patients.

 

[stonerblue]

Do people really think that all that money will be spent within the NHS?? This is what will happen.

Our local hospital - Pilgrim Hospital, Boston - is too small for the number of people in the area(it has not been enlarged for over 20 years) they have closed the A &E on Skegness and Grantham, moved some children’s services 30 miles away to Lincoln, it is short of space, doctors, nurses and general staff. Consequently they will give money to private hospitals to help reduce the backlog. I suspect that this will happen in just about every hospital in the country.

Blame it on immigrants..

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Do people really think that all that money will be spent within the NHS?? This is what will happen.

Our local hospital - Pilgrim Hospital, Boston - is too small for the number of people in the area(it has not been enlarged for over 20 years) they have closed the A &E on Skegness and Grantham, moved some children’s services 30 miles away to Lincoln, it is short of space, doctors, nurses and general staff. Consequently they will give money to private hospitals to help reduce the backlog. I suspect that this will happen in just about every hospital in the country.

Even it survives intact (and no-one's seen the wording yet):
- it kicks in in 2023, I think, and the 3 years of fixing will be after the next election and 5+ years away
- is 12 BN/year (I think that's what it worked out at) going to be enough?
- are surgeon numbers going to be sufficient for the catching up? I think you're right that they will have to pay private hospitals with much of it.
- the care assistance was stated (to my understanding) as being after the catch-up is done, so even longer away
- there seemed a lot of woollyness - care/health would be combined but how, local authorities would be funded but who directs it, the care coverage doesn't cover accommodation/food so who know how that will play out once it hits the market.

Is trying to fix it a good idea? Absolutely, and it is an attempt and one that required swallowing pride over manifeto pledgebreaking.
Does it make sense? No-one knows yet, or whether the 86k is reasonable
Is there much trust here for the banker Chancellor and banker Health Sec to give the health side of the balance as much as the beancounting? Wouldn't think so.

At the moment, it feels like a patch being waved like a flag and trumpeted as a great step forward without knowing what it is really.

 

[crazyg]

I know all that.
Furthermore any pensioner does not pay NI.
I retired early in my early 50s. Stopped paying NI immediately on my company pension.
In fact I had to make voluntary NI payments to make sure I got the full state pension when I reached 65.

I had a strong feeling you were aware of that, but can I point out that your second line is slightly incorrect, in that it should be "any pensioner over state retirement age" does not pay NIC. A big difference.
As I said in a previous post, It wasn't until the Pensions Act of 2008 was introduced that I stopped having to sign on at the Jobcentre to keep my pension credits being paid. The new act reduced the number of qualifying years for a full state pension to 30 from 44. As I'd been in the Revenue for 35 years, I met the conditions for a full state pension and signed off. I had taken early retirement at 56, as you can only persecute people for so long before thinking "enough is enough"!

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

I’m woeful at Maths but you’re looking at about £40 a month I think on £50k a year.

The cost of my FOC season ticket.

Im not very pleased at this, that is a big extra chunk I could without. Galling when these big tech giants pay nothing in tax and working people do.

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

Also, a lot if this could have been funded nicely with the cash this lying buffoon of a man has jizzed away needlessly on his Brexit vanity project

 

[BobKowalski]

The cap on care doesn’t apply to accommodation costs, which is the bulk of the cost. Kind of like we’ll pay for your breakfast in the morning but not your hotel bed.

Will the cap really fix the social care system?

How those needing care may still end up paying more than the much-heralded £86,000 cap.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Telegraph reporting that Truss, Rees-Mogg and Frost were the only cabinet members to raise contrary opinions to the plan.
Full three-line whip in place for today (apparently there's a vote).

 

[denislawsbackheel]

I had a strong feeling you were aware of that, but can I point out that your second line is slightly incorrect, in that it should be "any pensioner over state retirement age" does not pay NIC. A big difference.
As I said in a previous post, It wasn't until the Pensions Act of 2008 was introduced that I stopped having to sign on at the Jobcentre to keep my pension credits being paid. The new act reduced the number of qualifying years for a full state pension to 30 from 44. As I'd been in the Revenue for 35 years, I met the conditions for a full state pension and signed off. I had taken early retirement at 56, as you can only persecute people for so long before thinking "enough is enough"!

As did I.
I took early retirement at 52.
I did not have NI taken at source from my pension.
At the time you needed 44 years for full state pension.
I paid voluntary NICs for a while.
When they reduced the number of years required I got my voluntary payments refunded.
My statement was true. Anyone retiring early on a private pension does not have NIC taken at source.