The Conservative Party

Octavian said:
The good old days where we caused refugee crisis every other week, privatised the NHS more than any other government and sleep walked into a financial crisis.

But we let net 200,000-300,000 immigrants into the country, without it being in the manifesto people voted for, without a proper integration plan or a plan to build infrastructure to support the growth so it’s all good baby.

Bring back Blair!
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Yet he’s infinitely better than who has followed him.

Go figure.
 
Octavian said:
Neither are funny but Covid is a natural disaster, starting a war on a lie isn’t.
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You think Blair started the Iraq war?
And it wouldn't have happened without the UK?

Yes, Covid is a natural disaster, but made immeasurably worse by inept and corrupt government action in the first quarter of 2020, resulting in the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands more than there would have been. That is unarguable when you look at the PPE scandal and the care home scandal alone, and the lies associated with both of those.
 
west didsblue said:
You think Blair started the Iraq war?
And it wouldn't have happened without the UK?

Yes, Covid is a natural disaster, but made immeasurably worse by inept and corrupt government action in the first quarter of 2020, resulting in the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands more than there would have been. That is unarguable when you look at the PPE scandal and the care home scandal alone, and the lies associated with both of those.
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It’s not just that. It’s the fact Blair’s lie about the dossier destroys his entire tenure. How many lies has Boris told and yet Blair is worse?!
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
One killed 175 UK troops, the other 150,000 plus. Both unnecessarily.

Which one has been worse for the U.K.?
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One killed 400,000+ as a conservative estimate and counting and ruined an entire country.

How many people would have died if Johnson did absolutely everything correct?
 
Octavian said:
One killed 400,000+ as a conservative estimate and counting and ruined an entire country.

How many people would have died if Johnson did absolutely everything correct?
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No, Blair had to follow the US as we always do in these situations.

How many Afghans have Cameron, May and Boris killed by not pulling out of Afghanistan?

Boris is directly responsible for over 100,000 U.K. deaths. Far more than any other PM outside of World Wars.
 
west didsblue said:
You think Blair started the Iraq war?
And it wouldn't have happened without the UK?

Yes, Covid is a natural disaster, but made immeasurably worse by inept and corrupt government action in the first quarter of 2020, resulting in the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands more than there would have been. That is unarguable when you look at the PPE scandal and the care home scandal alone, and the lies associated with both of those.
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Care homes was a total fuck up I absolutely agree, I don’t think the PPE scandal could have made much difference, there were shortages everywhere.

No doubt some lives could have been saved regarding PPE but the care homes cost the most lives.

The Iraq war was totally avoidable and Covid wasn’t, the Iraq war lie is infinitely bigger and more destructive than any individual lie Johnson has ever told @Alan Harper's Tash

Both men should be facing charges but Blair should have a life sentence.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
No, Blair had to follow the US as we always do in these situations.

How many Afghans have Cameron, May and Boris killed by not pulling out of Afghanistan?

Boris is directly responsible for over 100,000 U.K. deaths. Far more than any other PM outside of World Wars.
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How have you got to that figure?

How can you possibly blame him for the majority of Covid deaths, what would you have done differently and how many would be saved?

Blair didn’t need to follow the US. UK troops were saving lives in Afghanistan over the last few years.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
It’s not just that. It’s the fact Blair’s lie about the dossier destroys his entire tenure. How many lies has Boris told and yet Blair is worse?!
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I don’t think it’s ever been proven that Blair knowingly lied. There’s no doubt the dossier was based on a lie and the people who signed it off were complicit in it but does that automatically make Blair culpable. Whilst the Chilcott report was damning the key part related to the dodgy dossier was described as follows:
“The report cleared the Prime Minister's Office of influencing the Iraq Dossier (the "Dodgy Dossier"), which contained the claim that Iraq possessed the ability to launch WMD within 45 minutes, and instead laid the blame for the weaknesses in its evidence on the Joint Intelligence Committee.”
 
west didsblue said:
I don’t think it’s ever been proven that Blair knowingly lied. There’s no doubt the dossier was based on a lie and the people who signed it off were complicit in it but does that automatically make Blair culpable. Whilst the Chilcott report was damning the key part related to the dodgy dossier was described as follows:
“The report cleared the Prime Minister's Office of influencing the Iraq Dossier (the "Dodgy Dossier"), which contained the claim that Iraq possessed the ability to launch WMD within 45 minutes, and instead laid the blame for the weaknesses in its evidence on the Joint Intelligence Committee.”
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Exactly. Hindsight was applied and Blair crucified.
 
Octavian said:
How have you got to that figure?

How can you possibly blame him for the majority of Covid deaths, what would you have done differently and how many would be saved?

Blair didn’t need to follow the US. UK troops were saving lives in Afghanistan over the last few years.
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You can legitimately ask the question why our death rate, as an island nation, was much worse than every other island nation in the world. Nearly double the next island nation that has a significant population size. It wasn’t just bad luck or population density. If the government had learned the lessons from Italy, with some quite obvious decisions we could have avoided a lot of deaths. That’s not just hindsight, many were saying it at the time because it was so obvious.
 
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