The Death Penalty.

[Pocomoke blue]

if you did have the Death penalty, then do it quick! not like here in M.D. We have three convicted felons on death row for years! the latest to be posponed is due to the leathel injuction being cruel!
'Fry'em' I say! and quickly :)
Don't waste Tax payers dollars by keeping them alive in comfort when poor folks who live honestley struggle! Also my tax dollars being spent on a defense lawyer whom keeps winning an appeal against the conviction which drags out for years!
FRY'EM!

 

[BlueMooney]

Their plan is not to get caught otherwise they would not do it.

That's the point I was making...

I also think it may be a deterrent in terms of 'oh god, if I get caught for this, I'm brown bread' though. It'd certainly concern me.

That's the problem.

No planned attacks involve getting caught, surely? That makes the punishment irrelevant as it won't change their mind.

In the case of unplanned attacks, I'm not convinced that someone's thought process would involve the 'if I get caught' aspect. Then again, would you give them the death penalty for a heat of the moment crime?

The only people I see it would act as a deterrent for are the people that wouldn't commit crimes anyway.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Capital punishment clearly wasn't a deterrent as people still continued to murder others even when they knew they would get put to death if caught & convicted. Therefore it can only be really regarded as legal revenge, based on the biblical injunction of "an eye for an eye".

But the literal taking of a life for a life was not what was meant by that expression. It was meant to signify compensation rather than revenge.

If you take two murderers - Ruth Ellis & Ian Brady - then most people (presuming they were not wholly opposed to the death penalty) would say that the former shouldn't have hung but the latter should. But both deliberately set out to kill their victims, albeit one was a very personal attack whereas the other was not. So how do you draw the line? Neither were right in the head so you can't use that.

 

[mackenzie]

mackenzie, theres no danger of them ever reintroducing the death penalty. I always get pissed off with this manslaughter law. If some arsehole smacks someone who subsequently cracks their head off the pavement and dies then its not murder, cause he didnt really mean it? I find it hard to come to terms with that law. Going off topic a wee bit I know but its not realistic to even consider capital punishment in this country now.

I think we are agreeing citybhoy. The lines are difficult to draw and I think that is why the death penalty will not be reintroduced. As the post above this one shows...Ruth Ellis and Ian Brady. Quite a massive difference there but with the same result, the loss of human life. And both with intent.

However, the example you use could be changed to some arsehole takes on an innocent bystander and subsequently finds he has picked on the wrong one, gets knocked to the floor and dies. No real premeditiated intent on the part of the bystander but he DID deliberatley knock him to the floor and was responsible for said arsehole's death.

And there's the rub.....hell of a decision to bring back Capital Punishment in those circumstances if you say a Life for a Life. I just think it's that very premise that would have to be dropped...and I doubt that any Government will ever be brave (or stupid enough if you look at it that way) to bring anything like it back.

I'm all for reeducation in some cases and tougher sentences in others (dependant on the nature of the crime obviously)..........but CP? No way will they bring it back.

 

[citybhoy]

mackenzie, theres no danger of them ever reintroducing the death penalty. I always get pissed off with this manslaughter law. If some arsehole smacks someone who subsequently cracks their head off the pavement and dies then its not murder, cause he didnt really mean it? I find it hard to come to terms with that law. Going off topic a wee bit I know but its not realistic to even consider capital punishment in this country now.

I think we are agreeing citybhoy. The lines are difficult to draw and I think that is why the death penalty will not be reintroduced. As the post above this one shows...Ruth Ellis and Ian Brady. Quite a massive difference there but with the same result, the loss of human life. And both with intent.

Funnily enough when I first saw the post the first name that sprung to mind was Bentley, and I see you mentioned him also. I would like to think that kind of mistake couldnt possibly happen in this day and age but who's to say.? I work for the prosecution side of the law and have done for 15 years, its made me a right cynical caaant and Im seriously thinking of pissing off out of it. Ive always kind of made a half-hearted argument in favour of capital punishment but having just read Poko's FRY EM rant I dont know . Makes you feel feckin dirty. Its an argument that wont go away but Im convinced it will never return here.

 

[mackenzie]

mackenzie, theres no danger of them ever reintroducing the death penalty. I always get pissed off with this manslaughter law. If some arsehole smacks someone who subsequently cracks their head off the pavement and dies then its not murder, cause he didnt really mean it? I find it hard to come to terms with that law. Going off topic a wee bit I know but its not realistic to even consider capital punishment in this country now.

I think we are agreeing citybhoy. The lines are difficult to draw and I think that is why the death penalty will not be reintroduced. As the post above this one shows...Ruth Ellis and Ian Brady. Quite a massive difference there but with the same result, the loss of human life. And both with intent.

Funnily enough when I first saw the post the first name that sprung to mind was Bentley, and I see you mentioned him also. I would like to think that kind of mistake couldnt possibly happen in this day and age but who's to say.? I work for the prosecution side of the law and have done for 15 years, its made me a right cynical caaant and Im seriously thinking of pissing off out of it. Ive always kind of made a half-hearted argument in favour of capital punishment but having just read Poko's FRY EM rant I dont know . Makes you feel feckin dirty. Its an argument that wont go away but Im convinced it will never return here.

Sorry, just edited/added to the post you are quoting, as you were posting. ;-)

I agree. I remember a relation (who lived through those days) talking about Bentley, and she had such sadness when she spoke of him. I too would hope that could never happen again, but as you say it is doubtful that it would ever be reintroduced again anyway.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

if you did have the Death penalty, then do it quick! not like here in M.D. We have three convicted felons on death row for years! the latest to be posponed is due to the leathel injuction being cruel!
'Fry'em' I say! and quickly :)
Don't waste Tax payers dollars by keeping them alive in comfort when poor folks who live honestley struggle! Also my tax dollars being spent on a defense lawyer whom keeps winning an appeal against the conviction which drags out for years!
FRY'EM!

Yes,you Yanks have really got this crime thing under control,haven't you?
The day we look to you neo-con rednecks for the solution is a sad day indeed.
Your country has one of the highest murder rates,per capita,in the civilised world.
Frying 'em,and your imbecile presidents cowboy approach to law and order,has been a roaring success,hasn't it?
And the fact that the US has executed AT LEAST 100 innocent people;(surprise,surprise most of them black),in the last 100 years.
So you can put me down as a "no",then.

 

[GStar]

Yes,you Yanks have really got this crime thing under control,haven't you?
The day we look to you neo-con rednecks for the solution is a sad day indeed.
Your country has one of the highest murder rates,per capita,in the civilised world.
Frying 'em,and your imbecile presidents cowboy approach to law and order,has been a roaring success,hasn't it?
And the fact that the US has executed AT LEAST 100 innocent people;(surprise,surprise most of them black),in the last 100 years.
So you can put me down as a "no",then.

What an extremely cuntish and stupidly sweeping, stereotypical statement to make.

 

[Knight1979]

Oh god NF, don't go near the "To catch a Predator" thread unless you want more profound insight from Pocomoke blue.

Stay away!!! I'm warning you!

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

Yes,you Yanks have really got this crime thing under control,haven't you?
The day we look to you neo-con rednecks for the solution is a sad day indeed.
Your country has one of the highest murder rates,per capita,in the civilised world.
Frying 'em,and your imbecile presidents cowboy approach to law and order,has been a roaring success,hasn't it?
And the fact that the US has executed AT LEAST 100 innocent people;(surprise,surprise most of them black),in the last 100 years.
So you can put me down as a "no",then.

What an extremely cuntish and stupidly sweeping, stereotypical statement to make.

Exactly which part of this statement do you take issue with,US murder rates;(much higher than ours),that the president is an imbecile,or that innocent people have been wrongly executed?
These aren't sweeping and stereotypical statements.
They are facts.

 

[citybhoy]

mackenzie, theres no danger of them ever reintroducing the death penalty. I always get pissed off with this manslaughter law. If some arsehole smacks someone who subsequently cracks their head off the pavement and dies then its not murder, cause he didnt really mean it? I find it hard to come to terms with that law. Going off topic a wee bit I know but its not realistic to even consider capital punishment in this country now.

I think we are agreeing citybhoy. The lines are difficult to draw and I think that is why the death penalty will not be reintroduced. As the post above this one shows...Ruth Ellis and Ian Brady. Quite a massive difference there but with the same result, the loss of human life. And both with intent.

Funnily enough when I first saw the post the first name that sprung to mind was Bentley, and I see you mentioned him also. I would like to think that kind of mistake couldnt possibly happen in this day and age but who's to say.? I work for the prosecution side of the law and have done for 15 years, its made me a right cynical caaant and Im seriously thinking of pissing off out of it. Ive always kind of made a half-hearted argument in favour of capital punishment but having just read Poko's FRY EM rant I dont know . Makes you feel feckin dirty. Its an argument that wont go away but Im convinced it will never return here.

Sorry, just edited/added to the post you are quoting, as you were posting. ;-)

I agree. I remember a relation (who lived through those days) talking about Bentley, and she had such sadness when she spoke of him. I too would hope that could never happen again, but as you say it is doubtful that it would ever be reintroduced again anyway.

Its probably the best example of why we shouldnt "FRY EM" however I truly believe that crime in general is not sufficiently punished in this country, unless its to do with money. Ive yet to see one of these wee neds get a sentence for carrying a blade and theyre getting picked up all the time. I cant be doing with this "carrying it to protect myself" shit, once theyre bevvied its usually some poor innocent guy that cops it. Anyway, time to mellow out and collect the citybhoy cubs from the fitba. Im a definite convert to no capital punishment now. cheers

 

[GStar]

Yes,you Yanks have really got this crime thing under control,haven't you?
The day we look to you neo-con rednecks for the solution is a sad day indeed.
Your country has one of the highest murder rates,per capita,in the civilised world.
Frying 'em,and your imbecile presidents cowboy approach to law and order,has been a roaring success,hasn't it?
And the fact that the US has executed AT LEAST 100 innocent people;(surprise,surprise most of them black),in the last 100 years.
So you can put me down as a "no",then.

What an extremely cuntish and stupidly sweeping, stereotypical statement to make.

Exactly which part of this statement do you take issue with,US murder rates;(much higher than ours),that the president is an imbecile,or that innocent people have been wrongly executed?
These aren't sweeping and stereotypical statements.
They are facts.

Mainly the parts where you assumed everyone in America thought and acted the same way... so all of it guess, your "facts" are wrapped in sweeping racial generalisations, so its hard to take anything you said there seriously.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

Yes,you Yanks have really got this crime thing under control,haven't you?
The day we look to you neo-con rednecks for the solution is a sad day indeed.
Your country has one of the highest murder rates,per capita,in the civilised world.
Frying 'em,and your imbecile presidents cowboy approach to law and order,has been a roaring success,hasn't it?
And the fact that the US has executed AT LEAST 100 innocent people;(surprise,surprise most of them black),in the last 100 years.
So you can put me down as a "no",then.

What an extremely cuntish and stupidly sweeping, stereotypical statement to make.

Exactly which part of this statement do you take issue with,US murder rates;(much higher than ours),that the president is an imbecile,or that innocent people have been wrongly executed?
These aren't sweeping and stereotypical statements.
They are facts.

Mainly the parts where you assumed everyone in America thought and acted the same way... so all of it guess, your "facts" are wrapped in sweeping racial generalisations, so its hard to take anything you said there seriously.

No,Gstar,I certainly don't assume all Americans think the same way.
I think the somewhat "heated" debates between Poko & Knight1979 serve as ample proof otherwise.
I just think that instead of looking towards a system which has so obviously failed in its harsh punishment regime is looking through the wrong end of the telescope.
I think it would be more logical to look to the Dutch and Scandinavian systems,both of which have significantly reduced the incidences of violent crime,whilst steering well clear of capital punishment.
And surely the biggest racial generalisation is that black and hispanic offenders commit approximately 25% of crimes attracting the death sentence,but constitute about 75% of the population on death row.
Not every black American can afford Johnnie Cochran to defend him like O.J.!

 

[mackenzie]

Its probably the best example of why we shouldnt "FRY EM" however I truly believe that crime in general is not sufficiently punished in this country, unless its to do with money. Ive yet to see one of these wee neds get a sentence for carrying a blade and theyre getting picked up all the time. I cant be doing with this "carrying it to protect myself" shit, once theyre bevvied its usually some poor innocent guy that cops it. Anyway, time to mellow out and collect the citybhoy cubs from the fitba. Im a definite convert to no capital punishment now. cheers[/quote]

I agree about the desperate need for tougher sentences in some cases.

The strange thing I think is that Brady escaped CP by a whisker, as it had been dispensed with not long before he came to trial (as you are probably aware). Many then believed he should have hanged (as I do now even all these years later) and felt cheated that he hadn't.

Yet we now have a situation where he wants to die....but "we" won't let him. At the time he applied for such a measure I thought "Let him, the bastid!" but now, a few years later, I am glad in a way that we have taken that "control" away from him and that he is dying very very slowly.
He didn't allow his victims any choices (their lives had barely started after all) so I think it now right that the evil mad old bastid is frustrated beyond belief and I trust it maddens him every second of every day and gives him his own private Hell.

And if, for example, we were to bring back CP say for terrorists only (just one example) it would make martyrs of them and be fuelling their propaganda.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

Oh god NF, don't go near the "To catch a Predator" thread unless you want more profound insight from Pocomoke blue.

Stay away!!! I'm warning you!

Wise words Knight,as ever.
Boy,does that gal have issues! :)

 

[GStar]

No,Gstar,I certainly don't assume all Americans think the same way.
I think the somewhat "heated" debates between Poko & Knight1979 serve as ample proof otherwise.
I just think that instead of looking towards a system which has so obviously failed in its harsh punishment regime is looking through the wrong end of the telescope.
I think it would be more logical to look to the Dutch and Scandinavian systems,both of which have significantly reduced the incidences of violent crime,whilst steering well clear of capital punishment.
And surely the biggest racial generalisation is that black and hispanic offenders commit approximately 25% of crimes attracting the death sentence,but constitute about 75% of the population on death row.
Not every black American can afford Johnnie Cochran to defend him like O.J.!

Now i can get on board with what your saying, and agree with most of it.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

No,Gstar,I certainly don't assume all Americans think the same way.
I think the somewhat "heated" debates between Poko & Knight1979 serve as ample proof otherwise.
I just think that instead of looking towards a system which has so obviously failed in its harsh punishment regime is looking through the wrong end of the telescope.
I think it would be more logical to look to the Dutch and Scandinavian systems,both of which have significantly reduced the incidences of violent crime,whilst steering well clear of capital punishment.
And surely the biggest racial generalisation is that black and hispanic offenders commit approximately 25% of crimes attracting the death sentence,but constitute about 75% of the population on death row.
Not every black American can afford Johnnie Cochran to defend him like O.J.!

Now i can get on board with what your saying, and agree with most of it.

LOL
Think we're singing from the same hymnsheet mate.

 

[citybhoy]

Its probably the best example of why we shouldnt "FRY EM" however I truly believe that crime in general is not sufficiently punished in this country, unless its to do with money. Ive yet to see one of these wee neds get a sentence for carrying a blade and theyre getting picked up all the time. I cant be doing with this "carrying it to protect myself" shit, once theyre bevvied its usually some poor innocent guy that cops it. Anyway, time to mellow out and collect the citybhoy cubs from the fitba. Im a definite convert to no capital punishment now. cheers

I agree about the desperate need for tougher sentences in some cases.

The strange thing I think is that Brady escaped CP by a whisker, as it had been dispensed with not long before he came to trial (as you are probably aware). Many then believed he should have hanged (as I do now even all these years later) and felt cheated that he hadn't.

Yet we now have a situation where he wants to die....but "we" won't let him. At the time he applied for such a measure I thought "Let him, the bastid!" but now, a few years later, I am glad in a way that we have taken that "control" away from him and that he is dying very very slowly.
He didn't allow his victims any choices (their lives had barely started after all) so I think it now right that the evil mad old bastid is frustrated beyond belief and I trust it maddens him every second of every day and gives him his own private Hell.

And if, for example, we were to bring back CP say for terrorists only (just one example) it would make martyrs of them and be fuelling their propaganda.[/quote]

Totally agree regarding Brady, its funny how forums like this actually get you thinking instead of just "hang the b*stard". He actually came from the Gorbals , which is where I work, and is possibly the most evil shit imaginable. Youre totally right, why should he get his wish to just end it? hope he hangs on for a good many years yet. Anyway, Im waiting for news of a job which will get me out of this depressing shit, its down in Weymouth and will be a new start altogether, but im going to have to give up my season ticket for the Hoops. In a way I hope I dont get it lol.

 

[Bigga]

Kids carry knives because they mix in circles that do likewise. And because they are completely clueless as to the effects of their actions. It's not real to them.

Going off what you said earlier, Macca, what do you think of this...?

They say an eye for an eye, we both lose our sight
And two wrongs don't make a right
But when you been wronged and you know all along that it's just one life
At what point does one fight...?

Not condoning anything, but it's a question...

 

[mackenzie]

Good luck with the job either way citybhoy.

I can understand how frustrating the law must be. My cousin was a barrister and emigrated to Canada (her hubby is Canadian) not so long ago. She is now a District Coroner and I don't think she ever really regrets giving up the law here.