The Holistic Approach

[Shadz69]

Winning an Fa cup and league in succesive seasons were really the building blocks of a footballing empire.I find it strange haw some fans can just dismiss them and we are only starting now to build this dynasty.No matter what comes in the next few years we stand on the shoulders of giants.

They certainly should have been the building blocks and I think Pellers will get a bit of stick if we have another pot-free season. We know we've spent a fortune (we can't go five bloody minutes without being reminded of the fact) but winning the cup and league showed we had spent it wisely. Had we not been treated to the collective brain-fart at Wembley another block would have been in place and added justification to the spending.
We are trying to introduce a holistic approach by grafting it onto the current structure, hence generally buying younger players, but we still need to be winning things to attract the occasional marquee signing as well as the best kids.
But somehow I think Pellers knows what he is doing. I don't know why; it's just a gut instinct. Or perhaps I thought Mancini was going about things the wrong way and am just glad we've got someone with a decent man-management record.
We won't know if the holistic approach is working for several years and Sorrano has already said he wants an average of a trophy a year. - So no pressure then!!

I agree pelli looks the real deal from what I have seen so far and I would'nt slate him if we win nothing this season,I really would like to have a manager for 4,5 or more seasons and see where it takes us.

 

[SWP's back]

Winning an Fa cup and league in succesive seasons were really the building blocks of a footballing empire.I find it strange haw some fans can just dismiss them and we are only starting now to build this dynasty.No matter what comes in the next few years we stand on the shoulders of giants.

They certainly should have been the building blocks and I think Pellers will get a bit of stick if we have another pot-free season. We know we've spent a fortune (we can't go five bloody minutes without being reminded of the fact) but winning the cup and league showed we had spent it wisely. Had we not been treated to the collective brain-fart at Wembley another block would have been in place and added justification to the spending.
We are trying to introduce a holistic approach by grafting it onto the current structure, hence generally buying younger players, but we still need to be winning things to attract the occasional marquee signing as well as the best kids.
But somehow I think Pellers knows what he is doing. I don't know why; it's just a gut instinct. Or perhaps I thought Mancini was going about things the wrong way and am just glad we've got someone with a decent man-management record.
We won't know if the holistic approach is working for several years and Sorrano has already said he wants an average of a trophy a year. - So no pressure then!!

What younger players have we bought this summer?<br /><br />-- Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:03 pm --<br /><br />

People who believe the signing of RVP wasn't pivotal in the tital race last season don't know what they're talking about imo.

Who said he wasnt? I am talking about people who state that RVP won them the league? How can anyone say this as "fact"?

You can't. Fact.

 

[Gelsons Dad]

So by that interpretation "Holistic" means a balanced 1st team squad.
Very different to the usual interpretations espoused on here.

Given that we were in for a Jovetic already last preseason and we've missed some of our targets this time I don't think the transfer policy is any different. If anything it's the opposite of the more "holistic" youth first policy of last time.

My interpretation for what it's worth is that the term was used directly at the managers character and was misused to mean less autocratic.

We appear to have a less autocratic manager in place. Lets hope he can achieve the 5 trophies in 5 years target that he's been set. If he does, it will be great for us and the making of his reputation.

 

[SWP's back]

So by that interpretation "Holistic" means a balanced 1st team squad.
Very different to the usual interpretations espoused on here.

Given that we were in for a Jovetic already last preseason and we've missed some of our targets this time I don't think the transfer policy is any different. If anything it's the opposite of the more "holistic" youth first policy of last time.

My interpretation for what it's worth is that the term was used directly at the managers character and was misused to mean less autocratic.

We appear to have a less autocratic manager in place. Lets hope he can achieve the 5 trophies in 5 years target that he's been set. If he does, it will be great for us and the making of his reputation.

He won't be here 5 years.

 

[BlueMoonRisin’]

Holistic bullshit. Score one more goal than your opponents and the game is won, simple as that.

 

[mammutly]

It's disingenuous if not downright sly to compare the signings made in this window with the transfer business of last season as if that was Mancini's failing. Roberto Mancini didn't get his targets and was publically critical of the dealmakers at the club for not producing the goods.. This season we may well have signed better players, but that's no reflection on the manager - past or present. What it does reflect is that Marwood is no longer in charge of business and a greater willingness to work hard on the part of the club's current exec team.

 

[Joycee Banercheck]

It's disingenuous if not downright sly to compare the signings made in this window with the transfer business of last season as if that was Mancini's failing. Roberto Mancini didn't get his targets and was publically critical of the dealmakers at the club for not producing the goods.. This season we may well have signed better players, but that's no reflection on the manager - past or present. What it does reflect is that Marwood is no longer in charge of business and a greater willingness to work hard on the part of the club's current exec team.

Will you just shut up?

Honestly, I thought about this...you got off lightly.

 

[SWP's back]

Holistic bullshit. Score one more goal than your opponents and the game is won, simple as that.

I refer back to the Luddite point.<br /><br />-- Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:35 pm --<br /><br />

It's disingenuous if not downright sly to compare the signings made in this window with the transfer business of last season as if that was Mancini's failing. Roberto Mancini didn't get his targets and was publically critical of the dealmakers at the club for not producing the goods.. This season we may well have signed better players, but that's no reflection on the manager - past or present. What it does reflect is that Marwood is no longer in charge of business and a greater willingness to work hard on the part of the club's current exec team.

Without clue.

 

[mammutly]

It's disingenuous if not downright sly to compare the signings made in this window with the transfer business of last season as if that was Mancini's failing. Roberto Mancini didn't get his targets and was publically critical of the dealmakers at the club for not producing the goods.. This season we may well have signed better players, but that's no reflection on the manager - past or present. What it does reflect is that Marwood is no longer in charge of business and a greater willingness to work hard on the part of the club's current exec team.

Will you just shut up?

I always love these reasoned ripostes.

 

[Joycee Banercheck]

It's disingenuous if not downright sly to compare the signings made in this window with the transfer business of last season as if that was Mancini's failing. Roberto Mancini didn't get his targets and was publically critical of the dealmakers at the club for not producing the goods.. This season we may well have signed better players, but that's no reflection on the manager - past or present. What it does reflect is that Marwood is no longer in charge of business and a greater willingness to work hard on the part of the club's current exec team.

Will you just shut up?

I always love these reasoned ripostes.

Mut, could have been a lot worse. I think you try to be a c**t. You do a good job too. That was reasoned.

 

[Neville Kneville]

It's disingenuous if not downright sly to compare the signings made in this window with the transfer business of last season as if that was Mancini's failing. Roberto Mancini didn't get his targets and was publically critical of the dealmakers at the club for not producing the goods.. This season we may well have signed better players, but that's no reflection on the manager - past or present. What it does reflect is that Marwood is no longer in charge of business and a greater willingness to work hard on the part of the club's current exec team.

Will you just shut up?

I always love these reasoned ripostes.

What it shows is that you can work WITH the suits, and improve the squad without throwing all your eggs in one basket & embarking on a power struggle to the detriment of the club.

Mancini was obnoxious this time last year, his behaviour was childish & petulant. If he had been willing to look at the kind of players we have signed in this window, we would have probably won the league.

If Mancini was still here, we would be involved in a tug of war with PSG now for Cavani & eventually lose, then he'd spit his dummy out again instead of moving for other options.

No way were Van Persie & Hazard the only attacking players we could have used. But he then asks for centre mids instead ? Sulking.

 

[Anonymous]

It's disingenuous if not downright sly to compare the signings made in this window with the transfer business of last season as if that was Mancini's failing. Roberto Mancini didn't get his targets and was publically critical of the dealmakers at the club for not producing the goods.. This season we may well have signed better players, but that's no reflection on the manager - past or present. What it does reflect is that Marwood is no longer in charge of business and a greater willingness to work hard on the part of the club's current exec team.

Marwood? Christ you still got that red herring tied to your flagpole. :)

Seriously though, Mancini picked the players he signed last summer just as he picked every player he signed during his tenure. The fact his scouting network failed to find any other attainable targets last summer shouldn't be a stick with which the club is beaten. Anyway the whole Italian debate is tiresome as fuck now he's been dispensed with.

Delighted that at least some people in the media can see what has happened in the last 6 weeks at City and why our signings point to a stable successful future for the club.

 

[Joycee Banercheck]

Will you just shut up?

I always love these reasoned ripostes.

What it shows is that you can work WITH the suits, and improve the squad without throwing all your eggs in one basket & embarking on a power struggle to the detriment of the club.

Mancini was obnoxious this time last year, his behaviour was childish & petulant. If he had been willing to look at the kind of players we have signed in this window, we would have probably won the league.

If Mancini was still here, we would be involved in a tug of war with PSG now for Cavani & eventually lose, then he'd spit his dummy out again instead of moving for other options.

No way were Van Persie & Hazard the only attacking players we could have used. But he then asks for centre mids instead ? Sulking.

Just no. all of it.

 

[meeesh]

How are you sure of this? Considering you are calling it a Fact.

Coz I watched all the football last season,have u been away or somert ?

Please look into the definition of fact. Thanks

Look at the rags stats,stats are what you call fact,most shots,most assists,and most importantly for them twats most goals,so try and go off topic and being a smart arse all u want

And answer the question I posed to you was you away or somert ? Because you have missed a point somewhere along the line

 

[mammutly]

Will you just shut up?

I always love these reasoned ripostes.

Mut, could have been a lot worse. I think you try to be a c**t. You do a good job too.

I am merely expressing an opinion. If that makes me a ****, I'm OK with it.

The article the OP quoted drew a negative comparison between last year's transfer dealings and the business done in this window - with an explicit linking reference to Mancini's sacking.

Two points:

Mancini publically stated on several occasions that he was not happy with the transfer business last season. He didn't get the players he wanted and those he did get came too late. The comparison made in the article doesn't float if this fact is considered.

Secondly. The 4 players we have signed are as yet unproven in the Prem. Surely every fan of the club can recall many examples of players with big reputations who didn't deliver - Robinho, Corradi, Jo, Bridge, Berti etc. etc. The signings we have made may well turn out to be the new Silvas and Agueros, nobody hopes so more than me, but the article the OP quotes is making conclusions based on assumptions which are currently unproven.

The holistic revolution is a sea change, no doubt about that. We've moved squarely into the barca and juve model of football - the team on the pitch being the tip of the proverbial iceberg. It's exciting, it's challenging, it has massive potential. But, I will here the plaudits for Holism, transfers and Pellegrini being better than Mancini when we've actually tested that potential. At the moment it's just some hack saying it is.

 

[Joycee Banercheck]

It's disingenuous if not downright sly to compare the signings made in this window with the transfer business of last season as if that was Mancini's failing. Roberto Mancini didn't get his targets and was publically critical of the dealmakers at the club for not producing the goods.. This season we may well have signed better players, but that's no reflection on the manager - past or present. What it does reflect is that Marwood is no longer in charge of business and a greater willingness to work hard on the part of the club's current exec team.

Marwood? Christ you still got that red herring tied to your flagpole. :)

Seriously though, Mancini picked the players he signed last summer just as he picked every player he signed during his tenure. The fact his scouting network failed to find any other attainable targets last summer shouldn't be a stick with which the club is beaten. Anyway the whole Italian debate is tiresome as fuck now he's been dispensed with.

Delighted that at least some people in the media can see what has happened in the last 6 weeks at City and why our signings point to a stable successful future for the club.

He won't get it , Billy. He's numb.

 

[meeesh]

Firstly the notion that RVP won the league for United is frankly bollocks. United statistically did not improve from season 2011/12. RVP scored 26 goals compared to Rooney's 27 the season before.

RVP, scoring 26 league goals is about standard for United's main man. Let's not forget that there's normally 7-10 penalties per season for their penalty taker. If Rooney had taken the pens that RVP did, their league totals would have been similar last year.

United bought the leagues best striker, statistically they went backwards. It was City that drastically under achieved and went backwards at a canter.86-89 points will be required nearly every year to win the Prem.
United got 89 points, but still wouldn't have won the league in 2011/12.

We dropped what? 8 more points at home than the season before? Only 3 more than the season before away from home.
So you could argue that our home form cost us, reverse the derby and things would have looked a lot closer.

RVP was a good signing but he did nothing the Rooney didn't do the season before.

That asides, the holistic approach is or seems to be looking good. We have bought round pegs for round holes. Siging a Cavanini or a Falcao would have been detrimental to the team. Neither are as good as Aguero, yet both would demand to be top dog, where as Sergio is a great team player, and great impact sub and all in all a very good man to have around.

An elite signing would demand to play week in week out. How do you build a team based on this? The players we have bought seem ideal for what we need, I along with many fans believe that pace on the left and cover at right sided centre half are all we are short of an excellent squad.

The holistic approach has arguably been seen in full working order already. The players seem happier, some egos have left and even the wages seem more parable throughout the squad.
The ideas of the Spaniards and Pellegrini have made our squad look significantly stronger more balance, I dare say a tighter group with a team ethos at heart.

Emphasis seems to be with Zabba, Richards, Kompany, Aguero, Milner and Nastasic to front the squad, all players with incredible team ethic. Navas is a hard working winger, Jovetic is a grafter with a great team ethic as is Negredo and Fernadinho gave up what £4 million to join us.
We have added four international players, strong, established players yet reduced our wage bill. This makes it hard to mock the 'holistic approach'.

Pellegrini has or seems to have got the squad believing they are a team. He hears rumours in the paper, he tells the media that he is happy with his squad, but if the right player comes up, well we'll always consider it. He hears rumours about Dzeko, what does he do? He tells the World that he believes Dzeko to be a great player with an important future at City. I loved Mancini, but he sometimes didn't play the game.

Pellegrini will tell the media that Dzeko is irraplacable, a great player, someone he's admired for years. This has three very good effects.
1. Dzeko feels great, happy to play and builds his confidence. Then we see some great performances in some very difficult conditions.
2. Tell the rest of the squad that he has faith in the players here. That he will give everyone a chance.
3. Indicates to the World that Dzeko is important, even if he isn't. Thus keeping his value high.

As I say I loved Mancini, I highly rate Mourinho, but as a business man, I wouldn't want them doing my sales and purchasing.
Both make it abundantly clear that they want to buy, that they will buy at almost any price, driving prices up. Both will also make it clear as day if they dislike a player, and his value will plummet.

In my eventual summary. I think we have a better team, a better squad, and happier squad and youth will see that the appointment of Viera as an indication that we intend to take our youth very seriously.

Stopped reading after the RVP was frankly bollocks line,dress it up all you want after that,about City that is,but thing is the stats don't lie,some people just don't seem to want to acknowledge it that's all

 

[Cityfan]

This season and last seasons financial constraints are probably very different.
We have freed up money on wages from RSC, Bridge, Tevez ,Balotelli, Maicon and Toure last year it was mainly Ade and Bellers of significance.

Mancini/Marwood also got in Nastasic and Rodwell so it was hardly a disaster the eason before the same team bought in Aguero, Nasri, Clichy and er Savic who except for the latter looked just as potentially influential as this lot.
We made a couple of mistakes last year but taken overall our business has looked pretty decent over all of the last three years to me.

 

[Joycee Banercheck]

I always love these reasoned ripostes.

Mut, could have been a lot worse. I think you try to be a c**t. You do a good job too.

I am merely expressing an opinion. If that makes me a ****, I'm OK with it.

The article the OP quoted drew a negative comparison between last year's transfer dealings and the business done in this window - with an explicit linking reference to Mancini's sacking.

Two points:

Mancini publically stated on several occasions that he was not happy with the transfer business last season. He didn't get the players he wanted and those he did get came too late. The comparison made in the article doesn't float if this fact is considered.

Secondly. The 4 players we have signed are as yet unproven in the Prem. Surely every fan of the club can recall many examples of players with big reputations who didn't deliver - Robinho, Corradi, Jo, Bridge, Berti etc. etc. The signings we have made may well turn out to be the new Silvas and Agueros, nobody hopes so more than me, but the article the OP quotes is making conclusions based on assumptions which are currently unproven.

The holistic revolution is a sea change, no doubt about that. We've moved squarely into the barca and juve model of football - the team on the pitch being the tip of the proverbial iceberg. It's exciting, it's challenging, it has massive potential. But, I will here the plaudits for Holism, transfers and Pellegrini being better than Mancini when we've actually tested that potential. At the moment it's just some hack saying it is.

I'm, really sorry but I can't stand you or anything you say. So I didn't read any of it. sorry. And what makes it worse is that I'm suffering from depression. And you make me more depressed thaan anything else xx

 

[mammutly]

Mut, could have been a lot worse. I think you try to be a c**t. You do a good job too.

I am merely expressing an opinion. If that makes me a ****, I'm OK with it.

The article the OP quoted drew a negative comparison between last year's transfer dealings and the business done in this window - with an explicit linking reference to Mancini's sacking.

Two points:

Mancini publically stated on several occasions that he was not happy with the transfer business last season. He didn't get the players he wanted and those he did get came too late. The comparison made in the article doesn't float if this fact is considered.

Secondly. The 4 players we have signed are as yet unproven in the Prem. Surely every fan of the club can recall many examples of players with big reputations who didn't deliver - Robinho, Corradi, Jo, Bridge, Berti etc. etc. The signings we have made may well turn out to be the new Silvas and Agueros, nobody hopes so more than me, but the article the OP quotes is making conclusions based on assumptions which are currently unproven.

The holistic revolution is a sea change, no doubt about that. We've moved squarely into the barca and juve model of football - the team on the pitch being the tip of the proverbial iceberg. It's exciting, it's challenging, it has massive potential. But, I will here the plaudits for Holism, transfers and Pellegrini being better than Mancini when we've actually tested that potential. At the moment it's just some hack saying it is.

I'm, really sorry but I can't stand you or anything you say.

In that case, please accept my condolences and continue your career of one liners. It suits your reflexive style.