The Independent Group

[happyman]

A far right party will never get anywhere in this country, a centrist one has a chance.

I'd vote for a centrist party, however this isn't it, it's a remain party a single issue clusterfuck. And if you believe everything you hear there is a far right party in power right now because the loons in the undergrowth think ukip have taken over the Tory party.
This isn't a move to centrism this is another ploy to circumvent the referendum.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Interesting if he really meant the last fifteen years because that would be going back into the era of phoney Tony and Gordon Brown. So I wonder if in his ( Mann's) view anti semitism was allegedly more or less prevalent in the party back in that time and/or did the respective Labour administration sort it out better than the current one?
Or maybe the media couldn't be arsed reporting it because there was no need for anti Labour agenda then.

If you watch the clip he does indeed say that and confirms that Blair would get involved personally and stamp it out. Something that Corbyn goe sto lengths to avoid. Hence current mess.

People keep mentioning middle it's nothing of the sort, it's an anti-Brexit party in the making. Cue a pro Brexit party and I mean a real one springing up in genuine opposition.

As many have said - it appeals to the politically homeless (ignoring the insipid Lib Dems). Those are the moderates and the remainers. What would another brexit party add, you have 4 (Tory, Labour, UKIP, Farrage party) its already a massively split vote and crowded space so there is no room at all for a 5th brexit party.

There are no big hitters in this new party, what point are you trying to make?

Big hitters are those that emerge with valid arguments that resonate and get air time. Soubry and Umunna have been doing just that and will continue to do it. What you think of them will be subject to what media you consume but you can't deny they are not gaining significant profile. Contrast with the Lib Dems where I cant name one!

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

perhaps the common denominator is that both were presented as binary choices when neither in fact was?

Again, spot on. Did Brexit mean no-deal, out of the EU but still in a customs union, single market, EFTA/EEA membership, a Canada-style agreement or even something else? There are many shades of Brexit.

I think it's safe to assume that some of the 52% (me included) would have given up full membership but happily settled for some sort of trade relationship with the EU, up to and including remaining in the single market. Probably some of the 48% felt the same way but decided that voting 'No' to Brexit was the safest option or the best of a bad job. But those views were never taken into account.

Personally I'd have preferred it if Cameron hadn't pandered to the ERG and never had the referendum in the first place, which was an appalling dereliction of duty. Whatever damage Blair did to Iraq, Cameron may have done to the UK (obviously not bombing it to smithereens but economically). But having got ourselves into this mess, we at least deserve a chance to decide whether what's on offer meets what we thought or hoped might be.

 

[happyman]

Big hitters are those that emerge with valid arguments that resonate and get air time. Soubry and Umunna have been doing just that and will continue to do it. What you think of them will be subject to what media you consume but you can't deny they are not gaining significant profile. Contrast with the Lib Dems where I cant name one!

Everything wrong with British politics in one sentence and it's getting worse. Mayday has hamstrung Brexit from the start, the smelly geography teacher hasn't exactly played his cards and as for ukip? it died after the vote was made.
For all this blather that there are no remain parties and loads of Brexit ones it's all hyperbole.

 

[happyman]

Again, spot on. Did Brexit mean no-deal, out of the EU but still in a customs union, single market, EFTA/EEA membership, a Canada-style agreement or even something else? There are many shades of Brexit.

I think it's safe to assume that some of the 52% (me included) would have given up full membership but happily settled for some sort of trade relationship with the EU, up to and including remaining in the single market. Probably some of the 48% felt the same way but decided that voting 'No' to Brexit was the safest option or the best of a bad job. But those views were never taken into account.

Personally I'd have preferred it if Cameron hadn't pandered to the ERG and never had the referendum in the first place, which was an appalling dereliction of duty. Whatever damage Blair did to Iraq, Cameron may have done to the UK (obviously not bombing it to smithereens but economically). But having got ourselves into this mess, we at least deserve a chance to decide whether what's on offer meets what we thought or hoped might be.

That's the way I see it but it does look like rather than get a deal of any kind some MP's have decided that not leaving is better and they should igner the result. As a leave voter I never expected a hard leave even though I wanted it, but there isn't even a sniff of a compromise from Soubry and co.

 

[Armchair Supporter]

Again, spot on. Did Brexit mean no-deal, out of the EU but still in a customs union, single market, EFTA/EEA membership, a Canada-style agreement or even something else? There are many shades of Brexit.

I think it's safe to assume that some of the 52% (me included) would have given up full membership but happily settled for some sort of trade relationship with the EU, up to and including remaining in the single market. Probably some of the 48% felt the same way but decided that voting 'No' to Brexit was the safest option or the best of a bad job. But those views were never taken into account.

Personally I'd have preferred it if Cameron hadn't pandered to the ERG and never had the referendum in the first place, which was an appalling dereliction of duty. Whatever damage Blair did to Iraq, Cameron may have done to the UK (obviously not bombing it to smithereens but economically). But having got ourselves into this mess, we at least deserve a chance to decide whether what's on offer meets what we thought or hoped might be.

Most Brexiters don't want the political union. Everything else is secondary

 

[hilts]

I'd vote for a centrist party, however this isn't it, it's a remain party a single issue clusterfuck. And if you believe everything you hear there is a far right party in power right now because the loons in the undergrowth think ukip have taken over the Tory party.
This isn't a move to centrism this is another ploy to circumvent the referendum.

The only people who think the Tories are a far right party are the loons. As a brexiteer myself I have long since accepted that fight is all but over. What sane people need is the current 2 parties to get fucked over. Will this IG group work? Probably not but anything that shakes it up is fine with me. The more anarchy the better. Any MP who walks away from those parties should be applauded whether you agree with them or not.

The IG group have stated our politics need to change and I agree. I’m not going to dismiss it or belittle it because it might not suit me. I’ll leave that for the other tossers to do.

 

[happyman]

The only people who think the Tories are a far right party are the loons. As a brexiteer myself I have long since accepted that fight is all but over. What sane people need is the current 2 parties to get fucked over. Will this IG group work? Probably not but anything that shakes it up is fine with me. The more anarchy the better. Any MP who walks away from those parties should be applauded whether you agree with them or not.

The IG group have stated our politics need to change and I agree. I’m not going to dismiss it or belittle it because it might not suit me. I’ll leave that for the other tossers to do.

I genuinely do agree that we need change and that the big two parties need to as you say fuck off, but let's say they fuck off who is going to challenge the new fake centrist party? I don't really care how it works out I would like to see a house full of independents making deals on different issues but our political masters don't really care what anyone thinks.

This new party isn't about real change for me, it's about keeping the status quo.

 

[Henkeman]

we had our chance to change the voting system in 2011. Not to PR but could have been a stepping stone to that change..... it was comprehensively beaten which effectively means the turkeys won't vote for christmas for some years to come

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum

I voted for that. Lost. I move on. This makes me amazingly old fashioned.

 

[hilts]

I genuinely do agree that we need change and that the big two parties need to as you say fuck off, but let's say they fuck off who is going to challenge the new fake centrist party? I don't really care how it works out I would like to see a house full of independents making deals on different issues but our political masters don't really care what anyone thinks.

This new party isn't about real change for me, it's about keeping the status quo.

They don’t need to fuck off as in vanish just lose their stranglehold. The biggest hindrance to this country is apathy and with our system it makes perfect sense. No one person can change anything or even a small group. We need someone/anyone to make an impact and people,may wake up. Next time it could be about the enviroment or something else. Social media is changing things, people may not have a voice at the ballot box but forums like this and others can make a difference.

We just need something to kick it off.