The IRA

[johnmc]

It seems to me that a number of people think the suffering and horror of war is a one sided affair. Innocent men, women and children die in wars, through bombings, shootings, and in some cases bloody, targeted brutality. The troubles were no different.

If an Irish child was killed by a British bullet were they any less of a victim than a British child killed by an IRA bomb? And don't say, the RUC and the army never deliberately targeted civilians because that is a ridiculously naive position that show's complete ignorance of the reality of the conflict in Ireland.

One poster has asked for clarification of why I would say the IRA deserved respect as a fighting force. I have already posted the link to the British goverment sponsored enquiry into the military operation in Ireland which concluded that PIRA were a "resilient, effective and determined force".

More than 150 IRA volunteers were killed on active service during the troubles, many more were arrested, tortured and imprisoned - so I think portraying them as cowards is much more a value judgement than a realistic opinion.

The fact is that that the IRA operated under the most intense state security regime ever established in Europe with constant multi level surveillance, routine arrest and interrogation proceedures, and a pretty much shoot on site policy for known suspects. Despite this they continued an effective guerrilla war against majority military, security force and political targets. They also acquired weapons, orchestrated high security prison escapes and, thanks largely to the continued brutality of the RUC and the British Army, built up widespread community support.

The suggestion made by another poster that the IRA declared a ceasefire from the brink of defeat is not supported by any of the available evidence.

Again why don't you just come out and say it, you think that blowing up innocent civilians in London, Birmingham, Manchester, Belfast is justified it's about time you were straight with people on here and honest, and other members of the forum can see where you are coming from, and what you beleive, you strike me as person who has never seen the full horror of war and violence, happen if you had you would not come out with such quite offensive clap trap And I do mean offensive

Do you support the British army?

 

[UlsterCitizen]

Do you support the British army?

The same army that fought 2 world wars to allow you to have your own thoughts free from persecusion

 

[mammutly]

[I'm curious mate, can I ask you a question?

Just wondering if you support all terrorist organisations or just the IRA? Do you support AL-Qaeda? Do you admire the terrorists who carried out the 9/11 and 7/7 attacks?

Do you include state terroist organisations in your question?

I don't support the deliberate killing of people at all, but I do understand how wars create brutality.

 

[johnmc]

Do you support the British army?

The same army that fought 2 world wars to allow you to have your own thoughts free from persecusion

Yes thats the one. And you kind of prove my point. The British army have carried out more murders of innocent civilians, tortured more people than any paramilitary group regardless of what side they are on and have done plenty of abhorrent things. Surely you cannot justify all that they have done. But you still support them as you believe in a lot of what they do.

My point being you can realise and respect what people are fighting for without agreeing, justifying or accepting all their actions. No one can defend the indefensible.

 

[mammutly]

It seems to me that a number of people think the suffering and horror of war is a one sided affair. Innocent men, women and children die in wars, through bombings, shootings, and in some cases bloody, targeted brutality. The troubles were no different.

If an Irish child was killed by a British bullet were they any less of a victim than a British child killed by an IRA bomb? And don't say, the RUC and the army never deliberately targeted civilians because that is a ridiculously naive position that show's complete ignorance of the reality of the conflict in Ireland.

One poster has asked for clarification of why I would say the IRA deserved respect as a fighting force. I have already posted the link to the British goverment sponsored enquiry into the military operation in Ireland which concluded that PIRA were a "resilient, effective and determined force".

More than 150 IRA volunteers were killed on active service during the troubles, many more were arrested, tortured and imprisoned - so I think portraying them as cowards is much more a value judgement than a realistic opinion.

The fact is that that the IRA operated under the most intense state security regime ever established in Europe with constant multi level surveillance, routine arrest and interrogation proceedures, and a pretty much shoot on site policy for known suspects. Despite this they continued an effective guerrilla war against majority military, security force and political targets. They also acquired weapons, orchestrated high security prison escapes and, thanks largely to the continued brutality of the RUC and the British Army, built up widespread community support.

The suggestion made by another poster that the IRA declared a ceasefire from the brink of defeat is not supported by any of the available evidence.

Again why don't you just come out and say it, you think that blowing up innocent civilians in London, Birmingham, Manchester, Belfast is justified it's about time you were straight with people on here and honest, and other members of the forum can see where you are coming from, and what you beleive, you strike me as person who has never seen the full horror of war and violence, happen if you had you would not come out with such quite offensive clap trap And I do mean offensive

How can someone "strike you as a person that has never seen the full horror of war..." ? That's a ridiculous statement.

Please tell me what is offensive about what I have said?

I think you are deliberately trying to provoke me in the hope of prompting a response that will allow you to pull a thread that you don't like.

 

[UlsterCitizen]

Do you support the British army?

The same army that fought 2 world wars to allow you to have your own thoughts free from persecusion

Yes thats the one. And you kind of prove my point. The British army have carried out more murders of innocent civilians, tortured more people than any paramilitary group regardless of what side they are on and have done plenty of abhorrent things. Surely you cannot justify all that they have done. But you still support them as you believe in a lot of what they do.

My point being you can realise and respect what people are fighting for without agreeing, justifying or accepting all their actions. No one can defend the indefensible.

But yet you try and defend the iRA

 

[johnmc]

The same army that fought 2 world wars to allow you to have your own thoughts free from persecusion

Yes thats the one. And you kind of prove my point. The British army have carried out more murders of innocent civilians, tortured more people than any paramilitary group regardless of what side they are on and have done plenty of abhorrent things. Surely you cannot justify all that they have done. But you still support them as you believe in a lot of what they do.

My point being you can realise and respect what people are fighting for without agreeing, justifying or accepting all their actions. No one can defend the indefensible.

But yet you try and defend the iRA

Sorry but where have I done that? If I have I did not intend to.

 

[talkativesprout]

Do you support the British army?

The same army that fought 2 world wars to allow you to have your own thoughts free from persecusion

Yes thats the one. And you kind of prove my point. The British army have carried out more murders of innocent civilians, tortured more people than any paramilitary group regardless of what side they are on and have done plenty of abhorrent things. Surely you cannot justify all that they have done. But you still support them as you believe in a lot of what they do.

My point being you can realise and respect what people are fighting for without agreeing, justifying or accepting all their actions. No one can defend the indefensible.

Im looking for a link that says 50 killed in army assault on northern ireland

 

[johnmc]

Im looking for a link that says 50 killed in army assault on northern ireland

Why?

Are you trying to say the army are not guilty of widespread civilian loss?

 

[UlsterCitizen]

Army responsible for 9% of deaths
IRA responsible for 49% of deaths
IRA killed more catholics than any other organisation