The Labour Government

I didn't think it was that much, still as I said they are not detained.


Even if meals are not provided they only get £47 a week (loaded onto a card.... as you can guess the places that take them ain't the cheapest).


Could you feed yourself on that ? ..... they don't live a life of riley ... despite what the Mail & Express may say.
 
'Semantic nonsense' is an insult? That's almost meta - semantic nonsense about semantic nonsense ;)

I'll take it that calling my argument 'absurd' in your very first reply, was you following the "standard playbook when the argument is lost"?

Kindly refrain from recycling my own arguments against me … ya tosser ;)
 
True, and I agree, we need MPs with decent principles who represent the people they are elected by, not ones that blindly follow party first no matter what.
If that was always the case then there couldn't be an effective government. The socialist left in Labour are going to remain a massive thorn in Starmers side and they'll pressure him like this at every opportunity but so far he has been ruthless in firing back.

It wasn't even a government vote either, it came from the SNP who let's face it did this to land any blow they could because Labour has destroyed them in Scotland.
 
They weren't that worried given they chose to stand as Labour candidates? Why didn't they stand as independents if they fundamentally don't trust or even agree with their own party leader?

Again it's called leadership. If they don't want to follow the party line then surely they know where the door is? Their best mate Jeremy certainly knows.

I imagine Corbyn would have stood as a Labour candidate if he were allowed. These MPs are undoubtedly able to achieve more change from within than outside. To put it another way you can like the firm you’ve spent your entire career working for and still think your new boss is a ****, it’s not that unusual.

That said I can understand why Starmer was annoyed given they stood on this manifesto only 3 weeks ago, but he isn’t the president and nor should he behave as such (one of the dangers of a large majority) , he’s leader of the party in power and that can change in a heartbeat. Just ask the lettuce.
 
I imagine Corbyn would have stood as a Labour candidate if he were allowed. These MPs are undoubtedly able to achieve more change from within than outside. To put it another way you can like the firm you’ve spent your entire career working for and still think your new boss is a ****, it’s not that unusual.

That said I can understand why Starmer was annoyed given they stood on this manifesto only 3 weeks ago, but he isn’t the president and nor should he behave as such (one of the dangers of a large majority) , he’s leader of the party in power and that can change in a heartbeat. Just ask the lettuce.
Indeed however at this stage you'd expect the party to impose discipline harshly and nobody should be surprised that Starmer come down hard on any dissenters.

Any chaos at this stage is a bad look for the future but I suppose both Starmer and the problem children won't care too much about that. They're always going to remain a protest element and have very little drive on mainstream policy and it isn't like Starmer hasn't got the seats.

They'll remain loud but they'll exert about as much as Corbyn did in the Blair years.
 
Indeed however at this stage you'd expect the party to impose discipline harshly and nobody should be surprised that Starmer come down hard on any dissenters.

Any chaos at this stage is a bad look for the future but I suppose both Starmer and the problem children won't care too much about that. They're always going to remain a protest element and have very little drive on mainstream policy and it isn't like Starmer hasn't got the seats.

They'll remain loud but they'll exert about as much as Corbyn did in the Blair years.

When Boris Johnson dumped all those senior MPs over Brexit, it changed the rules. I don't think for the better, but all parties realised that most voters weren't going to complain, and it became an easy way to discipline people, and ultimately get them out of the party. In most cases, no worries about local democracy and trigger ballots - as soon as they do something wrong, the whip goes, and unless they get it back it's an easy way to prevent them restanding.

If it had been accepted practice during the 80s, I doubt Corbyn would have been anywhere near Parliament today.

I don't think it's a good idea, but then not only has it apparently become accepted by voters, but for many cases it's become expected, and seen as weak if it doesn't happen.

It's also interesting to note that the people who voted against Labour last night, were much quieter in the last couple of years, when they knew that this would likely have prevented them from standing again. At the start of a Parliament, they're no doubt emboldened, and I suspect that Labour realise they've not got quite the same power, hence sticking a time limit on the suspension. I also suspect that everyone involved is pretty happy with the outcome.
 
I imagine Corbyn would have stood as a Labour candidate if he were allowed. These MPs are undoubtedly able to achieve more change from within than outside. To put it another way you can like the firm you’ve spent your entire career working for and still think your new boss is a ****, it’s not that unusual.

That said I can understand why Starmer was annoyed given they stood on this manifesto only 3 weeks ago, but he isn’t the president and nor should he behave as such (one of the dangers of a large majority) , he’s leader of the party in power and that can change in a heartbeat. Just ask the lettuce.

Yeah, of course he is annoyed, but I'd like to think that any decent leader would be able to withstand people not agreeing with everything, not suspending them for it.
 
I don't think it's a good idea, but then not only has it apparently become accepted by voters, but for many cases it's become expected, and seen as weak if it doesn't happen.

This is a real issue nowadays, looking tough, sounding tough, is more important than the actual substance of what you do day to day.

Can't remember which election it was, but I watched TV audiences more concerned on the hypothetical question of if Corbyn and Johnson would press the "Big Red Nuclear Button" than those actual day to day problems.

Its insane when you think about it.
 

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