Surely, if you have stood for a party, on a party manifesto which didn’t include a certain criteria, you’d expect to be fucked off if you went against said criteria?
Makes me think that these so called ‘ideologues’ were just in it for themselves, riding on the coat-tails to keep their job.
If you do not agree with what a party represents, go to the one you do, or, at least, have the courage of your conviction and go independent.
I’m dying on no hill, just debating daily politics.Would you be equally as vocal celebrating if they had said they would be removing the 2 child cap or complaining it wasn’t in the manifesto?
Just trying to work out which hill, or hills, you would choose to die on in the name of the party.
Hopefully they’ve bothered since then, quite understandable they’d stand without a clue what they’d actually be standing for :-)
I think you have to consider the alternative of free votes and no party manifestos.
We saw how that works in the Brexit deal debates under May (once she twigged that "Brexit means Brexit" wasn't a policy). Umpteen different proposals were put to Parliament and none could get a majority. In the end, to "get Brexit done", it took the worst example ever of forcing dissenters out of Parliament by a PM insisting on a loyalty test and removing talent, experience and expertise from his party and from Parliament. (And getting Brexit done despite most people voting for parties against Brexit or offering a second referendum.)
I’m dying on no hill, just debating daily politics.
I’ve stated earlier in the thread, I’d like a full reform of the benefit system to ensure those who need the safety net have at least a decent standard of living. Personally, I’d get rid of child benefit all together as I don’t think it’s fit for purpose, and integrate into a more simple system that protects those when most in need.
IF the 2 child cap was removed, I would be applauding the change, but politically, I can see why they’ve voted against.
Surely then that only strengthens the argument for looking at the selection process and stopping these career politicians from taking over parliament?
Its been parroted on here that the "Adults are in charge" and "Grown-ups" etc, but a lot of them really aren't, again, its better than the Tory government, but its not one that really represents us.
You can argue that the Brexit vote was an exceptional circumstance, as any Brexit was shooting ourselves in the foot, and the biggest cunts in parliament rode on the back of that for their own gain, not one really caring about what was happening. it was an impossible vote, whereas other things, such as this week, really don't need the whip applied.
Then Covid time magnified how out of depth these people really are.
Party manifestos are fine of course, but Starmer made a rod for his own back with him often U-turning since taking over leadership and his entire "Change" campaign was vague, it is akin to "Brexit means Brexit" granted it got them into power, but there was no stand out message other than "We aren't the Tories" (which is pretty fucking good of course - thanks to the Tories)
I’m dying on no hill, just debating daily politics.
I’ve stated earlier in the thread, I’d like a full reform of the benefit system to ensure those who need the safety net have at least a decent standard of living. Personally, I’d get rid of child benefit all together as I don’t think it’s fit for purpose, and integrate into a more simple system that protects those when most in need.
IF the 2 child cap was removed, I would be applauding the change, but politically, I can see why they’ve voted against.
Simply because they were aware of the stance on the policy so made their own political gain in the process, using the party to gain themselves another 5 years on the gravy train then, as soon as they get in, go against what they were elected for.So why do describe people who voted for something you would applaud as…
Makes me think that these so called ‘ideologues’ were just in it for themselves, riding on the coat-tails to keep their job.
After Johnson in 2019 culled a lot of the Tories' "career politicians", 50% of MPs elected in 2019 were aged over 50. That went well.
I’ll judge by what they do, not by what Tory fanboys think they might do.You probably won't be saying that after the October budget, Starmer is twat, just like the rest of them..