The Labour Government

Various factors have fucked our economy, and it's infantile to think we can put things right without either cutting costs or increasing taxes or both. In the case of cutting costs, everyone is fine with that until it hits them. In the case of increasing taxes, everyone is fine with that until it hits them. The consensus is always - someone else should pay, not me.
This I don't doubt, but what I am commenting on is the need of the red team to absolutely defend something that they would have excoriated the blue team for implementing.

Somewhat like the Victim FC needing to defend Suarez, when the rest of the world thought different. If he had played for the blue team Victim FC would have been all over it.

To think that this was a reaction to finding a hole after just three weeks is to be somewhat gullible. It is a lie by omission. Neither the blue, nor red team can lie stright in bed.
 
It's hardly an austerity government, more an austerity measure. And given that it's now been cleared up that you're not a Tory, I'm sure you won't have an issue in anyone blaming any Labour austerity measures on the state of the finances that the previous government left them with.
I have no issue with anybody giving the Tories a kicking. They deserve everything that comes their way. At the end of the day I'm interested in solutions not punch and Judy politics across the despatch box. I believe austerity is a choice not a necessity and the blame game only takes you so far.

I'd like to see someone make these kind of arguments... but I won't be htolding my breath ;-)

 
Labour have decided that to achieve electoral credibility they have to run a very tight ship and not just borrow (even more) to cover stuff we can't really afford.

This is, of course, a political choice. But going the other way, the most recent example is Truss, borrowing for tax cuts. I hardly see that as a wise policy, but your mileage may vary as they say. I do get the feeling that a lot of people want tax cuts but no cuts in spending. Is that credible? It seems to be if a Tory does it, but not anyone else. For my part, I don't see how it can be sustained. You end up with even more austerity, maybe the complete destruction of public services. (Which many Tories would like!)

Labour has gone the way it has precisely because of what happened to Corbyn, and his menu of policies that people seemed to think not to be credible.

Various factors have fucked our economy, and it's infantile to think we can put things right without either cutting costs or increasing taxes or both. In the case of cutting costs, everyone is fine with that until it hits them. In the case of increasing taxes, everyone is fine with that until it hits them. The consensus is always - someone else should pay, not me.
It's the dishonesty that is truly the problem. If Labour came out and said that there are extremely difficult decisions to make and here are the reasons why (COVID) then we'd have to grumble and accept that. This is the reality and it was always the reality but that was seemingly glossed over before the election. The Tories were no different either given they promised tax cuts but they realistically weren't going to end up in government.

Kicking up a fuss over a paltry £20bn hole is just an excuse, they lied about their commitments before the election and now that needs to be undone to meet their fiscal rules. The reason why is because they're now in government and they're going to have to face independent oversight over their spending commitments.

I mean bloody hell what is £20bn anyway really? We add £20bn to the national debt almost every month and that £20bn just gets placed neatly on top of the £2,600bn that we already owe. It really wouldn't make a difference if they committed to £100bn of extra spending, it all goes on the same bonfire of stuff that we can't afford.

All they've proven really is that at heart they're just another group of politicians who can't be trusted.
 
It's the dishonesty that is truly the problem. If Labour came out and said that there are extremely difficult decisions to make and here are the reasons why (COVID) then we'd have to grumble and accept that. This is the reality and it was always the reality but that was seemingly glossed over before the election. The Tories were no different either given they promised tax cuts but they realistically weren't going to end up in government.

Kicking up a fuss over a paltry £20bn hole is just an excuse, they lied about their commitments before the election and now that needs to be undone to meet their fiscal rules. The reason why is because they're now in government and they're going to have to face independent oversight over their spending commitments.

I mean bloody hell what is £20bn anyway really? We add £20bn to the national debt almost every month and that £20bn just gets placed neatly on top of the £2,600bn that we already owe. It really wouldn't make a difference if they committed to £100bn of extra spending, it all goes on the same bonfire of stuff that we can't afford.

All they've proven really is that at heart they're just another group of politicians who can't be trusted.
£20bn is still a lot of money even when we're talking £2.6tn overall debt. The Truss/Kwarteng Kamikaze budget was, what, £45bn of unfunded tax cuts? So that's "only" just over 2 months of adding to the national debt going off your figures. However, it created absolute pandemonium on the markets, and led to the Bank Of England having to intervene by virtue of buying £65bn of UK government bonds in order to halt a run on pension funds and to reduce the threat of wider financial instability.
 
It's the dishonesty that is truly the problem. If Labour came out and said that there are extremely difficult decisions to make and here are the reasons why (COVID) then we'd have to grumble and accept that. This is the reality and it was always the reality but that was seemingly glossed over before the election. The Tories were no different either given they promised tax cuts but they realistically weren't going to end up in government.

Kicking up a fuss over a paltry £20bn hole is just an excuse, they lied about their commitments before the election and now that needs to be undone to meet their fiscal rules. The reason why is because they're now in government and they're going to have to face independent oversight over their spending commitments.

I mean bloody hell what is £20bn anyway really? We add £20bn to the national debt almost every month and that £20bn just gets placed neatly on top of the £2,600bn that we already owe. It really wouldn't make a difference if they committed to £100bn of extra spending, it all goes on the same bonfire of stuff that we can't afford.

All they've proven really is that at heart they're just another group of politicians who can't be trusted.
Great, another Tory fiscal genius amongst us
 
£20bn is still a lot of money even when we're talking £2.6tn overall debt. The Truss/Kwarteng Kamikaze budget was, what, £45bn of unfunded tax cuts? So that's "only" just over 2 months of adding to the national debt going off your figures. However, it created absolute pandemonium on the markets, and led to the Bank Of England having to intervene by virtue of buying £65bn of UK government bonds in order to halt a run on pension funds and to reduce the threat of wider financial instability.
So everybody should be in favour of austerity then I guess? This forum has certainly changed!

What would of happened to the markets had Corbyn got in?
 
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This is fundamentally the problem, nobody wants to pay and everyone wants to take. Its all dont take it from me, take it from them over there.

Frankly its rather depressing.
Well I'm not a pensioner but my general view when we get in a pickle is to start with those who can afford it most and work your way down. They would get to me earlier than an old guy just about getting by. And I'm quite accepting of that.
 
So everybody should be in favour of austerity then I guess? This forum has certainly changed!

What would of happened to the markets had Corbyn got in?
I can't speak for anybody else except myself but I've already stated on this thread today that I voted Conservative in 2010 as I felt that austerity was the way to go at the time. Whether it was, we'll never know.
 

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