The Labour Government

Churchlawtonblue said:
Do you seriously believe that we are successfully integrating this ammount of people at the rate they are coming in ? That is clearly utter nonsense. The facts with regards to lack of housing and the waits and strains this is putting services for education, social and health care simply do not back up that assertion. These issues are simply swept under the carpet when people say things like this. Yet in the very next thread you and others are complaining about them and blaming everyone else including the previous government , apart from labour of course under who's government mass immigration took off massively in the 1990s. You simply refuse to see the link and blindly only see the positives.
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The UK has a good record when it comes to integration. The last two leaders of the Tories have come from immigrant backgrounds. The previous SNP leader was Muslim. The Mayor of London ditto and London is a very diverse city.

That we haven’t put the infrastructure in place to cope is a failure of Govt and a reasonable criticism. However, with the Brexit vote the large increase in migration over the last few years is precisely what we voted for and like it or not, people come here to satisfy a demand. If the demand wasn’t there they wouldn’t come.

So, to recap. The people voted for Brexit which cut off a flexible and large labour pool that has been compensated by a ‘sticky’ labour pool which given the cost and hassle is more inclined to put down roots and stay via citizenship. We voted for a Tory Govt which had no problem with large immigration numbers. I said at the time that despite the Tory’s Govt cosplaying rhetoric, they were shipping people in like nobodies business to feed the economy. The Tory Govt even expanded the Hong Kong pathway to UK citizenship in 2021 (correctly in my view). We have consistently encouraged and facilitated large immigration numbers and the economy needs the immigrants it attracts otherwise they wouldn’t come.

Given all the above it is a mystery why people spend so much time whining about the very thing they voted for and something the economy relies upon. If people have any useful and constructive suggestions to change things, other than blaming Blair which was 25 years ago, I would be interested to hear them.
 
Vic said:
You might. I come across as someone interested in their story.
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You’d ask the non-white folk from whence they came? You’ll get yourself cancelled (I believe that’s the modern parlance) if you’re not careful!!!

We all know the NHS has a number of different nationalities working in it. It was a pointless post in that regard but he’s getting rightly pulled up for the nonsense therein.
 
blueinsa said:
Did you make a point of asking them their nationalities so you could write this post or is it yet another “story” of yours that fits the narrative?
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A lot of hospital staff have little country flags on their name badges to indicate what languages they speak. That was certainly the case when the missus was in MRI on at least one or two wards so it’s probably quite widespread.
You’d have to be quite a good vexillologist to work out all the countries though.
 
BobKowalski said:
The UK has a good record when it comes to integration. The last two leaders of the Tories have come from immigrant backgrounds. The previous SNP leader was Muslim. The Mayor of London ditto and London is a very diverse city.

That we haven’t put the infrastructure in place to cope is a failure of Govt and a reasonable criticism. However, with the Brexit vote the large increase in migration over the last few years is precisely what we voted for and like it or not, people come here to satisfy a demand. If the demand wasn’t there they wouldn’t come.

So, to recap. The people voted for Brexit which cut off a flexible and large labour pool that has been compensated by a ‘sticky’ labour pool which given the cost and hassle is more inclined to put down roots and stay via citizenship. We voted for a Tory Govt which had no problem with large immigration numbers. I said at the time that despite the Tory’s Govt cosplaying rhetoric, they were shipping people in like nobodies business to feed the economy. The Tory Govt even expanded the Hong Kong pathway to UK citizenship in 2021 (correctly in my view). We have consistently encouraged and facilitated large immigration numbers and the economy needs the immigrants it attracts otherwise they wouldn’t come.

Given all the above it is a mystery why people spend so much time whining about the very thing they voted for and something the economy relies upon. If people have any useful and constructive suggestions to change things, other than blaming Blair which was 25 years ago, I would be interested to hear them.
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Pretty much spot on. After the Brexit vote, it was very clear that needed immigration would continue but the source of it would change.
 
west didsblue said:
A lot of hospital staff have little country flags on their name badges to indicate what languages they speak. That was certainly the case when the missus was in MRI on at least one or two wards so it’s probably quite widespread.
You’d have to be quite a good vexillologist to work out all the countries though.
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Hmmmm….What languages do they speak in Nigeria and Rwanda?
 
metalblue said:
Hmmmm….What languages do they speak in Nigeria and Rwanda?
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I’m sure you could look it up.

Obviously, as I’m sure you know, some countries have dozens of languages but there’s usually at least one language that most people from a particular country speak to a level. And the flags would only be an indication anyway.
 
metalblue said:
You’d ask the non-white folk from whence they came? You’ll get yourself cancelled (I believe that’s the modern parlance) if you’re not careful!!!

We all know the NHS has a number of different nationalities working in it. It was a pointless post in that regard but he’s getting rightly pulled up for the nonsense therein.
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Didn't King Charlie get pelters for that?
 
west didsblue said:
I’m sure you could look it up.

Obviously, as I’m sure you know, some countries have dozens of languages but there’s usually at least one language that most people from a particular country speak to a level. And the flags would only be an indication anyway.
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I don’t need to look it up, I know. English and French. Hopefully you can see how your hypothesis to help your mate out of a hole hasn’t worked. Same as Vic perhaps he meant 12k Asians work in the trust.

He has started to make up stories to try and bring is points to life. Not just this thread but others as well. Weird.
 
metalblue said:
I don’t need to look it up, I know. English and French. Hopefully you can see how your hypothesis to help your mate out of a hole hasn’t worked. Same as Vic perhaps he meant 12k Asians work in the trust.

He has started to make up stories to try and bring is points to life. Not just this thread but others as well. Weird.
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Think the k was a typo
 
west didsblue said:
A lot of hospital staff have little country flags on their name badges to indicate what languages they speak. That was certainly the case when the missus was in MRI on at least one or two wards so it’s probably quite widespread.
You’d have to be quite a good vexillologist to work out all the countries though.
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Not often I have to look something up. Kudos :)
 
hampshireblue said:
Pretty much spot on. After the Brexit vote, it was very clear that needed immigration would continue but the source of it would change.
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Funnily enough my father-in-law voted for Brexit, he's an immigrant from India who arrived in the UK in the 1960's. He settled, worked as an Engineer in Birmingham, married an English woman, had kids (including obviously my wife) and lived a very good life. We were all quite surprised when he voted to leave but he sat down and explained why. Basically he has always had friends and family back in India who had struggled to get visas or the right to work in the UK. He said that by removing the Eastern Europeans the UK would need to bring in people from elsewhere to fill the gaps so he said that would open things up for people in India to come. Now this was a couple of months after the referendum but my god he knew. He was basically playing 4D chess!
 
Bluemoon dan said:
Funnily enough my father-in-law voted for Brexit, he's an immigrant from India who arrived in the UK in the 1960's. He settled, worked as an Engineer in Birmingham, married an English woman, had kids (including obviously my wife) and lived a very good life. We were all quite surprised when he voted to leave but he sat down and explained why. Basically he has always had friends and family back in India who had struggled to get visas or the right to work in the UK. He said that by removing the Eastern Europeans the UK would need to bring in people from elsewhere to fill the gaps so he said that would open things up for people in India to come. Now this was a couple of months after the referendum but my god he knew. He was basically playing 4D chess!
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Sound reasoning and fair play to him.
 
Kompany Car said:
The following is with respect to migrants not asylum seekers or those often referred to as illegal migrants.

Purely from a financial perspective, when you look at the figures for immigrants into the UK across the papers that you can find online its a confused picture, we have migrants from inside the EU mixed with non EU migrants all being treated as one group by some papers, others focus on the individuals and not any of the extended family/dependents who migrate with them. Others try to look at the future when it comes to migrants and make assertions that their children will all be employed. All of these aspects make it very difficult to get a clear perspective of immigration and the impact on the public purse.

Depending on how you cut it, taking all migrants together including those from the EU, they are clear net positive contributors. If you split out Non EU you find that they provide substantially less net benefit and depending on skills can be significantly net negative.

Unfortunately low skilled migrants tend to be from parts of the world with a culture of large families and high birth rates. Whilst there have been waves of immigration into the UK over many centuries, those pre war had no option but to work and to earn sufficient to feed their families. There was no welfare state, no support net. If you were just looking at the cold hard numbers there would be a case to say that low skilled migrants should only be allowed if they have no dependents or are willing to come unaccompanied, from a humanitarian perspective its obviously much harder to make the case.

There is a discussion around all of this in the following article, but the bottom line is that the data set is incomplete and studies contain assumptions which are yet to be validated.

Migration Observatory Oxford

The only thing that is clear is that high skilled workers are positive contributors to the UK regardless of where they are from, but we already know that. The best scenario from an economic sense are migrants who are highly skilled aged between 20 and 50 with no children.

Whilst we can look at the population pyramid and say we dont have enough people entering the jobs market to support those in retirement, the large elephant in the room is the impact of AI, ultimately changing how we think about the skill sets we need and even how many people are actually required by businesses.
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If it's all so positive why are we struggling so much in so many areas ? Regardless of the government in charge?
 
BobKowalski said:
The UK has a good record when it comes to integration. The last two leaders of the Tories have come from immigrant backgrounds. The previous SNP leader was Muslim. The Mayor of London ditto and London is a very diverse city.

That we haven’t put the infrastructure in place to cope is a failure of Govt and a reasonable criticism. However, with the Brexit vote the large increase in migration over the last few years is precisely what we voted for and like it or not, people come here to satisfy a demand. If the demand wasn’t there they wouldn’t come.

So, to recap. The people voted for Brexit which cut off a flexible and large labour pool that has been compensated by a ‘sticky’ labour pool which given the cost and hassle is more inclined to put down roots and stay via citizenship. We voted for a Tory Govt which had no problem with large immigration numbers. I said at the time that despite the Tory’s Govt cosplaying rhetoric, they were shipping people in like nobodies business to feed the economy. The Tory Govt even expanded the Hong Kong pathway to UK citizenship in 2021 (correctly in my view). We have consistently encouraged and facilitated large immigration numbers and the economy needs the immigrants it attracts otherwise they wouldn’t come.

Given all the above it is a mystery why people spend so much time whining about the very thing they voted for and something the economy relies upon. If people have any useful and constructive suggestions to change things, other than blaming Blair which was 25 years ago, I would be interested to hear them.
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I noted that you just swerved the points i made and went off on a tangent of blame Bob. The truth is I think you know the answer to the questions but didn't want to accept them.

I will ask you also if its all so positive why are we struggling so much as a country? This shouldn't be the case with the findings of all these think tanks etc?
 
metalblue said:
You’d ask the non-white folk from whence they came? You’ll get yourself cancelled (I believe that’s the modern parlance) if you’re not careful!!!

We all know the NHS has a number of different nationalities working in it. It was a pointless post in that regard but he’s getting rightly pulled up for the nonsense therein.
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It depends how you ask. Sometimes I might preface it by saying "I know you have to be careful asking this, but where are you from?" The only time anyone's taken offence is a bloke on the doorstep with an Italian-sounding name who went off on one because I wanted to check if he was an EU citizen (so could only vote in local elections).

I once asked two staff at a restaurant in Cyprus where they were from, they said Latvia, and were rather surprised when I said, "Oh, labvakar. Ka yums klaayas".

We citizens of the world know our place.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
I noted that you just swerved the points i made and went off on a tangent of blame Bob. The truth is I think you know the answer to the questions but didn't want to accept them.

I will ask you also if its all so positive why are we struggling so much as a country? This shouldn't be the case with the findings of all these think tanks etc?
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You didn’t make any points. You complained. You want to suggest ideas for making the economy less reliant on immigrant labour then do so. Currently, around 20% of NHS staff are non-British so you can start there.

Less whining and more productive ideas. Go.
 
metalblue said:
I don’t need to look it up, I know. English and French. Hopefully you can see how your hypothesis to help your mate out of a hole hasn’t worked. Same as Vic perhaps he meant 12k Asians work in the trust.

He has started to make up stories to try and bring is points to life. Not just this thread but others as well. Weird.
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Actually English is a second language for most Nigerians. Most are much more fluent in either Hausa, Yoruba or Igbo depending on what area they come from.
I wasn’t particularly trying to help my “mate” out. I’m sure he’s perfectly capable of arguing his own case. Just pointing out that it’s not impossible in some hospitals to quite easily work out the origin of the staff without asking them.
Or are you calling me a liar as well and think I’ve made it up?
 
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