The Labour Government

Vic said:
No, it's well established that most Labour voters voted Remain. Ashcroft's polling suggested 63/37 for Remain.

But that was a lot of Labour voters willing to "get Brexit done" and abandon Labour to vote for Liar Johnson in 2019. I see little political advantage for Labour in encouraging "conversations" about immigration. Just deal with the asylum application backlog, get people out of hotels into jobs that Brits won't do (but pretend they would) and build more housing (using immigrant labour).
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So about 1 in 3 leave voters where Labour voters - or put another way about 15% of all Labour voters. 70% of leave voters did so due to concerns about immigration - that’s ~10% of all Labour voters are anti immigration. Thus my central premise that for you to say no Labour voters were present at the riots is not obviously a truism, certainly they will be in the minority.

It’s too easy (convenient even) to refer to anti immigration as racism when in fact it’s as likely to be xenophobia - it better fits the definition and better explains why people say “I’m not racist but…” when talking about immigration. The right is where you will find racists of that there is no dispute, but across both ends of the political spectrum you will find xenophobia and to pretend otherwise fails to understand the problem that needs to be addressed - and if you don’t understand, or fail to recognise, the problem you won’t fix it. Encouraging a conversation that focuses on positive undertones (and that’s not language of “smash the criminal gangs” or “stop the boats”) is the grown up approach, that is why Labour should tackle it IMHO. Having listened to a couple of the Tory leadership hopefuls I don’t have much hope they will change the toxic narrative on this topic.
 
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stonerblue said:
Nothing i say is gonna change your view, as has been evidenced by others throughout this thread. I'm not here to have a 'debate' but i do like to call out bullshit when i see it.
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I'll await that with interest then.

You see the difference between me and you lot is that when I am wrong I usually say so. You'll find me saying I didn't know that, or fair enough or whatever.

By contrast, the more moronic ones on your side just side step questions or reply with crap like "Please get help".

It would be really refreshing if one of you - any of you - would respond to that video I posted of Starmer talking about the black hole in May, and then posted along the lines of "fair enough, on face value it does look like he's lying."

But unless I have missed it (sorry if I have) none of you have the basic humility to do so.

So what will your reply to this be?

(a) Avoid the question
(b) Throw an insult around
(c) No reply at all
 
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metalblue said:
So about 1 in 3 leave voters where Labour voters - or put another way about 15% of all Labour voters. 70% of leave voters did so due to concerns about immigration - that’s ~10% of all Labour voters are anti immigration. Thus my central premise that for you to say no Labour voters were present at the rights is not obviously a truism, certainly they will be in the minority.

It’s too easy (convenient even) to refer to anti immigration as racism when in fact it’s as likely to be xenophobia - it better fits the definition and better explains why people say “I’m not racist but…” when talking about immigration. The right is where you will find racists of that there is no dispute, but across both ends of the political spectrum you will find xenophobia and to pretend otherwise fails to understand the problem that needs to be addressed - and if you don’t understand, or fail to recognise, the problem you won’t fix it. Encouraging a conversation that focuses on positive undertones (and that’s not language of “smash the criminal gangs” or “stop the boats”) is the grown up approach, that is why Labour should tackle it IMHO. Having listened to a couple of the Tory leadership hopefuls I don’t have much hope they will change the toxic narrative on this topic.
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Much of the anti- City stuff is just xenophobia dressed up as concern for football.
Colin Schindler once described the good sheik as ‘a mysterious man from the east.’
 
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metalblue said:
So about 1 in 3 leave voters where Labour voters - or put another way about 15% of all Labour voters. 70% of leave voters did so due to concerns about immigration - that’s ~10% of all Labour voters are anti immigration. Thus my central premise that for you to say no Labour voters were present at the rights is not obviously a truism, certainly they will be in the minority.

It’s too easy (convenient even) to refer to anti immigration as racism when in fact it’s as likely to be xenophobia - it better fits the definition and better explains why people say “I’m not racist but…” when talking about immigration. The right is where you will find racists of that there is no dispute, but across both ends of the political spectrum you will find xenophobia and to pretend otherwise fails to understand the problem that needs to be addressed - and if you don’t understand, or fail to recognise, the problem you won’t fix it. Encouraging a conversation that focuses on positive undertones (and that’s not language of “smash the criminal gangs” or “stop the boats”) is the grown up approach, that is why Labour should tackle it IMHO. Having listened to a couple of the Tory leadership hopefuls I don’t have much hope they will change the toxic narrative on this topic.
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In fairness, I would consider xenophobia to be a form of racism; I know by strict designation they differ, but that's my take. Regardless, it's sad that in the 21st Century there are some fearful of others because of their ethnicity or nationality.
 
Blue and true said:
In fairness, I would consider xenophobia to be a form of racism; I know by strict designation they differ, but that's my take. Regardless, it's sad that in the 21st Century there are some fearful of others because of their ethnicity or nationality.
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Prejudices are accepted throughout our society. Landlords not renting out to those on benefits is a prime example.
 
Blue and true said:
In fairness, I would consider xenophobia to be a form of racism; I know by strict designation they differ, but that's my take. Regardless, it's sad that in the 21st Century there are some fearful of others because of their ethnicity or nationality.
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Xenophobia is deep within the DNA as a defence mechanism. Racism is the failure to use the brain to overcome this call of the wild.
 
Chippy_boy said:
I'll await that with interest then.

You see the difference between me and you lot is that when I am wrong I usually say so. You'll find me saying I didn't know that, or fair enough or whatever.

By contrast, the more moronic ones on your side just side step questions or reply with crap like "Please get help".

It would be really refreshing if one of you - any of you - would respond to that video I posted of Starmer talking about the black hole in May, and then posted along the lines of "fair enough, on face value it does look like he's lying."

But unless I have missed it (sorry if I have) none of you have the basic humility to do so.

So what will your reply to this be?

(a) Avoid the question
(b) Throw an insult around
(c) No reply at all
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Why are you getting so wound up?
 
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