The Labour Government

Churchlawtonblue said:
That is utterly nonsensical.
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Is it? Italy has had practically zero growth since they joined the Eurozone. But they have a better standard of living than most of the UK outside of London.

The trouble you have is that because you have a narrow frame of reference you project it on others.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
Is it? Italy has had practically zero growth since they joined the Eurozone. But they have a better standard of living than most of the UK outside of London.

The trouble you have is that because you have a narrow frame of reference you project it on others.
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So no growth needed! Why are you telling all of us this? Surely you would be better emailing your idea to the PM and Chancellor and tell them they have got their economic strayegy all wrong with their narrow frame of mind!
 
BrianW said:
Some of the problems with this country:

1. Huge imbalance of wealth between the ultra-rich and the rest.
2. A great reluctance to tax wealth (as opposed to income) to change this.
3. A largely under-educated/trained workforce in an increasingly high-tech world.
4. An absurd tendency to nostalgic hankering for a supposed golden age that never was.
5. An extreme tendency to insularity.
6. A deeply corrupt and biased media.
7. Too much fawning to the USA in the mistaken belief they are our 'friends', not ruthless business competitors.
8. A lack of realism in the population, with a demand for European levels of services for USA levels of taxation.
9. Genuine poverty in a huge proportion of the population, not just pensioners.
10. An absurdly small internal market, thanks to Brexit.
11. Poor trading arrangements, with most of the 'deals' trumpeted by the Tories worthless or next to worthless.
12. A tendency to invest in property, not industry.
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Agree with most of that but how do you tax wealth? Most wealth is in illiquid assets that can decrease in value as well as increase. Forced sale of shares, property or other assets to fund a wealth tax bill would have huge consequences. The only current significant wealth tax is incurred after death in the form of IHT, and any increases in scope of that causes huge pushback. The only other one I can think of is council tax but that reaches an upper limit long before you get to the wealth of the super rich. Other than that taxing people’s wealth when alive is a non-starter.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
So no growth needed! Why are you telling all of us this? Surely you would be better emailing your idea to the PM and Chancellor and tell them they have got their economic strayegy all wrong with their narrow frame of mind!
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Using Italy as an example of universally high living standards in comparison to the UK’s poorer regions is particularly insightful as well, given of course the well known lack of regional income inequality across Italy, and how these regional inequalities (if they exist at all!) don’t tend to get much worse during periods of recession.

But I suppose the trouble here is that this is just a narrow frame of reference. Apologies for the projection.
 
west didsblue said:
Agree with most of that but how do you tax wealth? Most wealth is in illiquid assets that can decrease in value as well as increase. Forced sale of shares, property or other assets to fund a wealth tax bill would have huge consequences. The only current significant wealth tax is incurred after death in the form of IHT, and any increases in scope of that causes huge pushback. The only other one I can think of is council tax but that reaches an upper limit long before you get to the wealth of the super rich. Other than that taxing people’s wealth when alive is a non-starter.
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The easiest way is a Land Value Tax, which has a huge advantage. The rich cannot take their land out of the country. If it were to reduce land price, that would be a bonus.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
What are you basing this £200 a day fugure on?

Sounds like you are just making it up.

If you think they are getting full board in four star hotels you are mistaken.

The average works out at about £112 a day.
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I thought asylum accomodation was contracted out to serco, Mitie and other hedge fund parasites to run?

I recall my cousin being sacked from her job, along with everyone else when they converted the hotel they worked in. "So the private contractor can run it efficiently", as in cheap as possible with little or no maintenance taking place.
 
mackenzie said:
The State Pension system needed a complete overhaul years ago. However, I completely understand those who have paid in all their lives, who have saved (and therefore lessened the burden on the State in the process) feeling "penalised" for doing so.
It's not just the State Pension either, there needs to be a fundamental change of mindset when it comes to support from the State generally. The State support should be there for genuine "need." Not as an added bonus for a particular situation.

It's all a horrendous mess, and it will take a very brave (possibly suicidal to be honest) Government to actually address it.
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Agree Macca.

Sadly we don't have any politicians prepared to use their term to do it as they all only look forward 5 years not 50.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
Is it? Italy has had practically zero growth since they joined the Eurozone. But they have a better standard of living than most of the UK outside of London.

The trouble you have is that because you have a narrow frame of reference you project it on others.
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This is what the OECD website shows when you compare Italy and the UK poverty rate.

1000006721.png
Is it acceptable that we still have people living in poverty anywhere in a wealthy part of the world ? No. But Italy is a bad example.
 
TinFoilHat said:
Agree Macca.

Sadly we don't have any politicians prepared to use their term to do it as they all only look forward 5 years not 50.
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I agree with that.
And the State should also not have to step in and help working people either.
My Grandparents raised 3 children, and then myself from the age of about 6. Grandad worked all his life in engineering and Gran was a housewife. When she did take on a part time job in her 50s (working at a local school) she only did it because of the 3 day week, but then Grandad got a second job as a taxi driver to supplement their income so she stopped.
They never had a penny off the state.

How we have got to this mess of working families having to be subsidized is beyond me, and I'm sure other more knowledgeable posters will have the fine details. One thing I do know is that everything changed massively after Thatcher.

I do know that tax credits were introduced by the Blair government but wasn't that more reactionary rather than anything else?

I know a lot of families that are now heavily reliant on benefits, for a variety of reasons. That should not be "normal."
It should be the exception.

Visited relations in Market Harborough a few months ago. That part of the country is like a different world. Far too many Northern communities (and of course elsewhere) have been left to suffer, like they don't matter. And despite Thatcher having been out of power nearly 35 years, it's getting much worse
 
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