The Labour Government

[I'm With Stupid]

Most landlords are far from scum or greedy most just want a bit of pension money

Absolutely, but that doesn't mean that the way they're going about it isn't harmful when repeated on a huge countrywide scale. Housing is a finite resource, and an essential for people to live. We have laws against scalping and price gouging even with non-essential things like concert tickets, yet we basically allow the stockpiling of housing for profit to continue unabated. It's all well and good to ask what other option people have for retirement, but what about the people forced to rent all their life? We've got a generation of people who will end up having to retire without any property to their name to fund some extra comfort for the few who have a surplus of housing to sell for their retirement (or pass on to their kids without paying any tax on it, as almost all of the people who are arguing in favour of landlords on this thread have also been arguing for on the inheritance tax thread).

Obviously it's not as black and white as ticket scalpers, because to some extent, we will always need rental properties and therefore landlords. People move around and can't be expected to buy all the time. Others are never going to get their shit together enough to ever buy, even if it's made extremely easy (but that's what social housing is for). However, we've had decades where we're not just accepting landlords as a necessary part of society, we're actually encouraging them. And I think it's accurate to point out the harm that this 'buy property to retire on' philosophy has caused on the macro scale.

Even the proliferation of this word 'property' shows how attitudes to houses have changed over the past few decades.

But in terms of the strength of feeling about landlords, when there are millions of people who are struggling to get on the property ladder, they really are seen like the ticket touts, the people who buy all the PS5s and sell them on Ebay for 3 times the price, or someone buying up all the PPE during covid.

 

[Quad]

What if you were daft enough to only start saving in a pension until you had to?

Or daft enough not to save for a house deposit

 

[Quad]

I get why people would do it, it’s wealth creating wealth for people not just in the proper upper echelons.

The problem though is underlying it is people feel they need to do it for reasons like you say - to prop up their pension. If we had companies paying people what they should be and also providing pension contributions even remotely similar to what they used to, then they wouldn’t feel the need to go into things to supplement their income or pension and we wouldn’t have a housing market that young people can’t either save up enough to buy themselves as they have to spend so much on rent or mortgage themselves up the eyeballs, both of which reduce also their quality of life by giving them less disposable income elsewhere.

It’s a horrible legacy we’re passing on the next generation.

I totally agree with you , my boss is minted and could quite easy up our pension contributions

 

[meltonblue]

I totally agree with you , my boss is minted and could quite easy up our pension contributions

I’m pretty high up in the org I’m in now and it’s actually made me more angry over time despite me earning more myself! The amount both in pension contributions and additional bonus payments the upper levels get is ridiculous, it’s no wonder the disparity of wealth is growing so much. It’s just not justifiable at all to me what I’m able to pay some people that work for me compared to what they get, there is no where near the difference in value that there is in salary.

 

[Quad]

You can ask. But I don't have to answer.

So put the rest in a private pension then?

I do put money into a private pension and Isa

Then once the house is paid off I’ll put more money into it and also pay down my own mortgage


Like I said not all landlords are scum , my tenants have been a single mum who got unverisal credit top up, elderly couple who downsized then a polish couple who probably couldn’t afford the mortgage if there bought from me

 

[Quad]

I’m pretty high up in the org I’m in now and it’s actually made me more angry over time despite me earning more myself! The amount both in pension contributions and additional bonus payments the upper levels get is ridiculous, it’s no wonder the disparity of wealth is growing so much. It’s just not justifiable at all to me what I’m able to pay some people that work for me compared to what they get, there is no where near the difference in value that there is in salary.

A mate of mine got a promotion and it’s mad what he got in terms of bonus , company car , etc , I’m bottom run of the ladder and always will be but I knew early on to save for a house and bloody graft

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

It's not the politics of envy. I don't envy landlords. Keep up at the back.

Landlords buying up more and more housing and continually pushing the price up above wage inflation is not something to be applauded.

If landlords want to do something of benefit, buy commercial property instead.

I think you envy people's wealth. Price increases in rent are driven by a lack of housing. Or empty homes, second homes. Not landlords renting properties.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

A mate of mine got a promotion and it’s mad what he got in terms of bonus , company car , etc , I’m bottom run of the ladder and always will be but I knew early on to save for a house and bloody graft

I think part of the issue is the lack of other options for ordinary people, or at least a lack of education about them. A house is an obvious, tangible asset that people can understand. It also has that dual income of rent and the increase in value. It also doesn't really help that every other programme on the TV is encouraging people to buy a cheap house, do it up, and rent it out or sell it for a profit. Meanwhile, how many TV shows do you see about investing in the stock market, local businesses, starting your own business, setting up a pension, etc?

 

[BrianW]

All this springs from two factors:

a) The decline in pension provision. Even the much-vaunted public sector pensions are shit compared to what they used to be. Unlike most European countries, the state pension is set at a low level, with low contributions. Finally, the private pension industry has managed to destroy confidence in it. This needs sorting out. I would go for European-style state pensions, with the recognition that this means higher NI and that it would apply to upcoming generations, not those who have not paid for it.

b) The deliberate privatisation of rental housing started by Thatcher's right-to-buy policy and her obsessive hatred of councils and council housing. (Municipal socialism.) This led to more and more people being forced into the private rental sector, which in turn led to a surge in demand, making rental properties a more attractive investment.

I don't blame landlords, although I agree a minority of them are exploitative and care nothing for tenant welfare. They are just exploiting an economic opportunity brought about by government policy, or lack of it. I blame politicians for fucking up pensions and failing to sort out housing. The latter being a consequence of leaving this vital provision largely to market forces.

In the UK we are too hung up on seeing houses as a profitable investment instead of as homes. No one delights when food shoots up 15% in a year, but when that happens to house prices people fucking celebrate.

 

[hampshireblue]

Fore a start, they should stop offering degree courses on medieval basket-weaving, and run only what they can afford. I don't think it's a great move to be educating Chinese en masse, in our top universities, given they are internationally the biggest threat to our long term wealth.

The only bit of sense you've some out with.