The Labour Government

[meltonblue]

Very interesting that Andy Burnham has broken ranks on the public enquiry issue. Like all political parties, Labour is riven with factions and, as Johnson found out, there’s only so many jobs a PM can hand-out to secure loyalty. I can genuinely see both - first Reeves then Starmer - being ousted before the year is out. Whatever other merits they may have, it’s become clear to many they are both poor political operators.

He hasn’t really broken ranks, Phillips said she would support another inquiry if the victims wanted it and Starmer said he was open minded about it too.

The whole thing has shown how much better Labour have got to get at politicking though, some of the old rules are completely off the table nowadays, both in the commons and in the media.

What the conservatives and reform did and how a lot of people portrayed it I found absolutely shameful tbh.

 

[metalblue]

I don’t disagree with your assessment of the global forces at play, but unfortunately for Reeves she is being moved around by shifts in market sentiment - chiefly because of the choices she made in her Budget.

Manufacturing a situation where the key fiscal mandate is seen as being severely threatened if not breached, and a tightening of policy is required, should borrowing costs rise by just 30bp relative to the central forecast is just asking for trouble. Particularly when you consider the lack of a clear consensus around the path of inflation over the next couple of years and the likely response of central banks.

She’s simply pushed the envelope too far on borrowing and created a situation where the key messages around a very expensive uplift in departmental spending and investment is being undermined and muddled by relatively small shifts in market sentiment.

I don’t think she’s being pushed around (yet) but it is a risk. She’s currently being called out on her assumptions - and that’s fair - and I also agree that her budget and this huge uplift in spending with little to no reform has raised a few eyebrows outside of government. She’s certainly putting all her eggs in one basket - perhaps she should have waited a year or so before her big gamble.

Like I say I sincerely hope it pays off.

 

[metalblue]

Robot Reeves is an ideologue when it comes to economics. She is indoctrinated in one school of economics and won't be brave enough to change it for fear of her own belief system being shattered.

Mind you I could say the same of many of us, Including myself are on this political forum.

The art of debate and reasoning is dying as we all go further and further into our own boxes.

For someone indoctrinated she isn’t being terribly orthodox mate. I don’t particularly mind a politician being steadfast in their beliefs (so long as they aren’t insane) - hell it’s nice to have a politician stand for something other than re-election!!!!

She’s wholly dislikable however.

 

[metalblue]

My simple thought around this that money is devalued as it’s not been backed by gold since 1971. Every time there has been a problem they’ve printed themselves out of trouble but the amount of debt built up is unsustainable.

How do you possibly pay off trillions of debt? How do individuals & corporations own more assets thannnations.

Inflation mate that’s how, inflation erodes debt for free. The smoke and mirrors trick of government is to have your interest rate below real inflation that way the difference between the two is free money as you end up paying back less than you borrowed in real terms.

 

[hilts]

I've been arguing for PR for literally 50 years. I usually got told, by Tories, that I was a sore loser and that it was just that I wanted a backdoor way for 'my lot' to have more MPs. Hardly anyone agreed with me bar the odd Lib-Dem.

But funnily, now that the same FPTP system that gave Thatcher and Johnson big majorities on a minority of the vote has chanced to give the Tories a complete tonking of the first order, PR is suddenly the way forward. Even among people who until recently thought 'PR' was public relations.

I could make a lot of cynical and snarky remarks.

It's been discussed regularly on here for at least a decade. The two big undeserved majorities that Johnson and now Starmer got may make some more people get on board.
But as I've said previously our politicians go off the idea as soon as they get a sniff of power.

 

[Vic]

I don't either. But I'd bet both her and KS are.
Didn't KS go as far as saying he was more loyal to Davros, than the UK parliament..?
If true..therin lies the answer...

Last year, hundreds of mps resigned their post,the most ever in the history of British politics I believe.

You believe wrong. 149 MPs stood down in 2010.

 

[Vic]

I’m an FOC and my three children feel exactly as you do ! If I was younger it would be hard not to consider fucking off somewhere.

Someone has to say it. The older generation voted to make it harder to work elsewhere.

 

[Vic]

He hasn’t really broken ranks, Phillips said she would support another inquiry if the victims wanted it and Starmer said he was open minded about it too.

The whole thing has shown how much better Labour have got to get at politicking though, some of the old rules are completely off the table nowadays, both in the commons and in the media.

What the conservatives and reform did and how a lot of people portrayed it I found absolutely shameful tbh.

A lot of people = Elon Musk and anyone who jumped on his evil bandwagon.

It's perhaps remarkable, but very welcome, that, apart from one unusual suspect, the abuse of Jess Phillips hasn't really gained traction on Bluemoon.

 

[Vic]

It's been discussed regularly on here for at least a decade. The two big undeserved majorities that Johnson and now Starmer got may make some more people get on board.
But as I've said previously our politicians go off the idea as soon as they get a sniff of power.

And the electorate voted against it when asked.

 

[Rory Bluelow]

Someone has to say it. The older generation voted to make it harder to work elsewhere.

There’s no doubt that’s true as far as the EU’s concerned !

 

[meltonblue]

And the electorate voted against it when asked.

That was alternative vote rather than PR.

 

[Vic]

That was alternative vote rather than PR.

And would the electorate have voted for a more complicated PR system?

 

[Rory Bluelow]

I agree it shouldn't be a party political issue. But it's strange that the opposition are suddenly up in arms about it when they could have easily addressed this themselves at any point up to July 4th last year.

And an inquiry isn't about bringing the perpetrators to justice, it's about investigating what went wrong and making recommendations to ensure the same things aren't repeated. That's already happened, but the previous government decided to do nothing about it. This one is now trying to put those recommendations into place, with over 100 Conservative MPs voting to block it.

The whole thing is just utterly bizarre.

To be honest, it’s only because Musk has forced the issue. I thought Burnhams intervention showed great political instincts- should he or similar replace Starmer, Labour would have a huge rebound in popularity. I may be wrong but a palace coup at some point would not surprise me at all. I’ve a family member rising through the ranks with Labour and they’ve met and dined with Starmer and Reeves several times c/w photos. I told them that in a few years time, you’d be photoshopping them out!

 

[meltonblue]

And would the electorate have voted for a more complicated PR system?

If it had been done in a different way to the way it was, who knows?

I think it would have far more support if it was done now either way though.

 

[hampshireblue]

Not bizarre, just certain elements of our, and other establishments, using the victims as political footballs. The fact that the now Tory leader, who was the Minister for Women and Girls at the time, and her fellow Tory leader candidate, never once brought this up is absolutely disgusting behaviour. Why didn’t this happen?

It’s actually a disgrace and the sooner get the recommendations through, the better.

And not a single Tory MP has yet come out to say they actually spent any time at all with any of the victims. At least the liks of Nandy and Philips did.

 

[cheekybids]

Inflation mate that’s how, inflation erodes debt for free. The smoke and mirrors trick of government is to have your interest rate below real inflation that way the difference between the two is free money as you end up paying back less than you borrowed in real terms.

The level of debt has gone beyond that & confidence in the fiat currency is falling.

 

[hilts]

And the electorate voted against it when asked.

When the two main parties actively campaigned against it and the dems came up with something rather complicated. That time you mean?

Nice to see you support the electorates decisions when it suits Vic the Labour man.

 

[Kompany Car]

And would the electorate have voted for a more complicated PR system?

Why did it need to be complicated with 1st choice, second choice and multiple transferred votes of the AV system?

PR with a single transferable vote works perfectly fine in Sweden why not the UK ?

 

[hampshireblue]

Why did it need to be complicated with 1st choice, second choice and multiple transferred votes of the AV system?

PR with a single transferable vote works perfectly fine in Sweden why not the UK ?

Because we didn't invent it!!

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Why did it need to be complicated with 1st choice, second choice and multiple transferred votes of the AV system?

So that people wouldn't vote for it. The biggest mistake the Lib Dems made was agreeing to go into power with the Tories for an AV referendum, rather than their original policy of a PR referendum. The fact that the Tories would only agree to an AV referendum tells you exactly how popular they thought PR was.