The Labour Government

[metalblue]

Labour gets its fair share from being one of the factors of production?

Sadly not mate.

What will happen is UK companies becomes less attractive to foreign investors - as a consequence foreign investors don’t need to exchange their money for ours - this means the UK doesn’t get external investment - as a result the UK government has to start printing even more money to pay our bills… making the UK less attractive (due to inflation), to compensate the UK puts up interest rates. This makes us all poorer which further dents growth and makes UK assets less attractive which makes the whole wheel turn again.

I think @stonerblue mentioned a few pages back that Next need to cough up a mere £70m more? to cover the NI bill out of a near billion in profit. Seems plenty affordable right? But the CEO of Next’s job is to maximise returns for the companies shareholders (so they continue to want to own the shares) - his job isn’t to give a fuck about the government wanting to spend money on breakfast clubs in schools or to build new schools. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t personally care about those things, it’s just his job isn’t to.

We’re on the wheel and there isn’t an easy way out other than to keep chipping away at the unfairness in the system - unfortunately I think the government have tried to chuck a bone to every worthwhile issue thus diluting its effect rather than focus on 1 or 2 things.

 

[metalblue]

The most annoying thing about modern politics is that a forecast is considered news. Terry at the bank reckons the economy is doing well this year. If you must do them, any stories about forecasts should be accompanied with a table of all of their forecasts for the last 10 years versus what actually happened.

Actually, let's extend that rule to transfer speculation too.

It’s always been important. If you think there will be growth you invest in staff, equipment and premises to meet the anticipated demand. It almost becomes self fulfilling.

The problem with economists is they only forecast based on the known and history. Sensible? Perhaps. Had Reeves said she was going to stick £100k of tax payers money every week on the horses economists would calculate she wouldn’t win and that would be in the debit column. They won’t factor in her winning at 50/1 every 3 months. You get the idea why forecasts can be a bit meh, add in as soon as a government chooses to do something differently from the herd they go in to collective retreat.

 

[Damocles]

I see they are trying to raise the age you can retire. Apparently they want to raise it from 66 to 67 which for people in there 30/40s won’t make a great deal of difference.
I’ve read that if you were born after April 1960 they want it to be 67.
I was born June 1960 and scheduled to retire sept 2026. I have paid in 47 years in NI stamps 49 years by the time I retire.
If this is announced in the spring budget they would effectively giving me one years notice to up my retirement age and then means testing it.
How much notice did the waspi women get?

On top of this they are looking at changing employers rules in that they can’t make you retire if you don’t want to.

If this goes ahead then employers CAN make you leave if they think you can no longer do the job or offer you another position on minimum wage.

When the tories said be careful what you wish for I was sceptical but this labour government on top of all the woke shite
Are fucking thieves.

I may not be politically savvy but fuck me
These cunts really don’t give a fuck about my generation.

This Government has guaranteed your generation billions of pounds that this country cannot afford. You should get politically savvier rather than taking your politics from bad social media posts

 

[hammocity]

This Government has guaranteed your generation billions of pounds that this country cannot afford. You should get politically savvier rather than taking your politics from bad social media posts

You don't understand the position of some people though. There's a significant number of Seniors and soon to be Seniors that have paid into the system all their lives, through tax and NI contributions. There wasn't pension schemes available at lots of companies, Civil Servants, local authority workers and employees in Nationalised businesses were catered for, many others not so. Also women who brought up kids and paid different level of NI contributions are disadvantaged.

Any Senior on more than £218 a week can't claim pension credit, their total income is less than half that of someone working 40 hours a week on minimum wage. Some of these people worked more than that, going back to the 50/60's Saturday morning work was a common occurrence and some companies.

Your statement of "This Government has guaranteed your generation billions of pounds this country cannot afford" is sensationalist in the extreme, the UK is in position 15 of the European pension table, Spain is second and their GDP is less than half of ours.

Quoting billions with no regard for a single pensioner living on 11k per annum is a piss take, I'm guessing you've got a nice company pension scheme with a contribution from your employer, something that wasn't available to me when I started work in 1975 and my opportunity to pay into a scheme didn't come along for a good few years later. I'm ok financially due to being shrewd with my money but others of my age and generation won't be as lucky and I'm empathetic about their situation, you're clearly not.

 

[Blue Maverick]

I see they are trying to raise the age you can retire. Apparently they want to raise it from 66 to 67 which for people in there 30/40s won’t make a great deal of difference.
I’ve read that if you were born after April 1960 they want it to be 67.
I was born June 1960 and scheduled to retire sept 2026. I have paid in 47 years in NI stamps 49 years by the time I retire.
If this is announced in the spring budget they would effectively giving me one years notice to up my retirement age and then means testing it.
How much notice did the waspi women get?

On top of this they are looking at changing employers rules in that they can’t make you retire if you don’t want to.

If this goes ahead then employers CAN make you leave if they think you can no longer do the job or offer you another position on minimum wage.

When the tories said be careful what you wish for I was sceptical but this labour government on top of all the woke shite
Are fucking thieves.

I may not be politically savvy but fuck me
These cunts really don’t give a fuck about my generation.

It already is 67, they can only raise it by 1 year every 10 years after the WASPI mess.

• The state pension age is currently 66 for both men and women.
  
  
• The age will increase gradually from May 6, 2026 to March 6, 2028.
  
  
• The age increase is phased so that people born between April 6, 1960 and March 5, 1961 will reach their state pension age at 66 years and a specified number of months.

 

[hammocity]

I see they are trying to raise the age you can retire. Apparently they want to raise it from 66 to 67 which for people in there 30/40s won’t make a great deal of difference.
I’ve read that if you were born after April 1960 they want it to be 67.
I was born June 1960 and scheduled to retire sept 2026. I have paid in 47 years in NI stamps 49 years by the time I retire.
If this is announced in the spring budget they would effectively giving me one years notice to up my retirement age and then means testing it.
How much notice did the waspi women get?

On top of this they are looking at changing employers rules in that they can’t make you retire if you don’t want to.

If this goes ahead then employers CAN make you leave if they think you can no longer do the job or offer you another position on minimum wage.

When the tories said be careful what you wish for I was sceptical but this labour government on top of all the woke shite
Are fucking thieves.

I may not be politically savvy but fuck me
These cunts really don’t give a fuck about my generation.

The good news for you is you will get your State Pension at 66 years and 2 months of age, so August 2026, it was announced a few years ago. Anyone born after the 6th March 1961 will not qualify for the State Pension until they reach 67. Furthermore, anyone born after the 6th April 1968 won't qualify until they are 68.

You're right, these lot don't give two fucks about our generation.

Edit, if your DOB is before the 6th June your retirement age is 66 years and two months, if it's later in June it's 66 and three months, the latter would cost you circa £2700!

 

[hammocity]

Won’t affect you.

It does, but only by 2 months which is still around £1800.

 

[mancityvstoke]

You don't understand the position of some people though. There's a significant number of Seniors and soon to be Seniors that have paid into the system all their lives, through tax and NI contributions. There wasn't pension schemes available at lots of companies, Civil Servants, local authority workers and employees in Nationalised businesses were catered for, many others not so. Also women who brought up kids and paid different level of NI contributions are disadvantaged.

Any Senior on more than £218 a week can't claim pension credit, their total income is less than half that of someone working 40 hours a week on minimum wage. Some of these people worked more than that, going back to the 50/60's Saturday morning work was a common occurrence and some companies.

Your statement of "This Government has guaranteed your generation billions of pounds this country cannot afford" is sensationalist in the extreme, the UK is in position 15 of the European pension table, Spain is second and their GDP is less than half of ours.

Quoting billions with no regard for a single pensioner living on 11k per annum is a piss take, I'm guessing you've got a nice company pension scheme with a contribution from your employer, something that wasn't available to me when I started work in 1975 and my opportunity to pay into a scheme didn't come along for a good few years later. I'm ok financially due to being shrewd with my money but others of my age and generation won't be as lucky and I'm empathetic about their situation, you're clearly not.

Wasting your time on here boss..........they'd gas us all if they could.

 

[ganganvince]

Changed retirement age to 67 a while back

Yes it's a stepped change I get mine at 66 and 2 months July next year.

 

[BrianW]

It's a real problem because for some years we shall have an increasing proportion of citizens who are retired. Eventually, we shall get over this 'hump' and the proportion will fall to a more normal level, but that doesn't help us now.

The country's finances are shaky for various reasons, and (unlike Spain) we still have delusions of being a great power. We, as a people, don't like the idea of paying European levels of tax, but nor will we accept USA levels of public service. A big chunk of government £s goes on pensioners, and that is growing. Yeah, we all paid in and contributed, but that doesn't change the facts.

Something has to give. And I'm fucked if I can see an easy solution. Maybe means test the NHS like Farage is advocating? That'll help pensioners, won't it?

 

[mancityvstoke]

It's a real problem because for some years we shall have an increasing proportion of citizens who are retired. Eventually, we shall get over this 'hump' and the proportion will fall to a more normal level, but that doesn't help us now.

The country's finances are shaky for various reasons, and (unlike Spain) we still have delusions of being a great power. We, as a people, don't like the idea of paying European levels of tax, but nor will we accept USA levels of public service. A big chunk of government £s goes on pensioners, and that is growing. Yeah, we all paid in and contributed, but that doesn't change the facts.

Something has to give. And I'm fucked if I can see an easy solution. Maybe means test the NHS like Farage is advocating? That'll help pensioners, won't it?

Then all the losers get free health care and those who have worked hard and saved or bought their house get fuck all. In America for example you can lose everything if you get cancer.

 

[hammocity]

Yes it's a stepped change I get mine at 66 and 2 months July next year.

Get mine in May this year, I retired at 63 after working 47 years and factored in I'd have no income for almost three years. I've got 45 years full NI contributions, think we deserve it.

 

[mancityvstoke]

Get mine in May this year, I retired at 63 after working 47 years and factored in I'd have no income for almost three years. I've got 45 years full NI contributions, think we deserve it.

Exactly I've paid 50 years but they don't care that we planned for retirement based on those rules .

 

[Vic]

Sadly not mate.

What will happen is UK companies becomes less attractive to foreign investors - as a consequence foreign investors don’t need to exchange their money for ours - this means the UK doesn’t get external investment - as a result the UK government has to start printing even more money to pay our bills… making the UK less attractive (due to inflation), to compensate the UK puts up interest rates. This makes us all poorer which further dents growth and makes UK assets less attractive which makes the whole wheel turn again.

I think @stonerblue mentioned a few pages back that Next need to cough up a mere £70m more? to cover the NI bill out of a near billion in profit. Seems plenty affordable right? But the CEO of Next’s job is to maximise returns for the companies shareholders (so they continue to want to own the shares) - his job isn’t to give a fuck about the government wanting to spend money on breakfast clubs in schools or to build new schools. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t personally care about those things, it’s just his job isn’t to.

We’re on the wheel and there isn’t an easy way out other than to keep chipping away at the unfairness in the system - unfortunately I think the government have tried to chuck a bone to every worthwhile issue thus diluting its effect rather than focus on 1 or 2 things.

I now see why the state owning the means of production is such a better alternative.

 

[BrianW]

Then all the losers get free health care and those who have worked hard and saved or bought their house get fuck all. In America for example you can lose everything if you get cancer.

Exactly!
It's a fucking joke. But people think Farage is 'one of them' and 'tells it how it is.'

 

[Vic]

People still complaining in the Labour thread about pension changes made by the last government - even though it's clear that the poster that started it had no idea he was looking at stuff from years ago. And after Badenoch broached means testing of pensions.

 

[metalblue]

I now see why the state owning the means of production is such a better alternative.

It’s an alternative. Better? We will never agree on that because I fundamentally believe in small state.

 

[Damocles]

You don't understand the position of some people though. There's a significant number of Seniors and soon to be Seniors that have paid into the system all their lives, through tax and NI contributions. There wasn't pension schemes available at lots of companies, Civil Servants, local authority workers and employees in Nationalised businesses were catered for, many others not so. Also women who brought up kids and paid different level of NI contributions are disadvantaged.

Any Senior on more than £218 a week can't claim pension credit, their total income is less than half that of someone working 40 hours a week on minimum wage. Some of these people worked more than that, going back to the 50/60's Saturday morning work was a common occurrence and some companies.

Your statement of "This Government has guaranteed your generation billions of pounds this country cannot afford" is sensationalist in the extreme, the UK is in position 15 of the European pension table, Spain is second and their GDP is less than half of ours.

Quoting billions with no regard for a single pensioner living on 11k per annum is a piss take, I'm guessing you've got a nice company pension scheme with a contribution from your employer, something that wasn't available to me when I started work in 1975 and my opportunity to pay into a scheme didn't come along for a good few years later. I'm ok financially due to being shrewd with my money but others of my age and generation won't be as lucky and I'm empathetic about their situation, you're clearly not.

What are you talking about?

I feel like you're having a conversation that I'm not having.

This is very simple. A guy came in and declared that Labour are "thieves" and are "stealing" from pension aged people. I pointed out that Labour have pledged to keep the Triple Lock, which is the most generous benefits system in the country, and that it spends £110bn a year or around 50% of the whole benefits budget on pensions, and will grow by another £14bn this year. The retirement age rise is a Tory policy, enacted under a Tory Government and voted through by Tory MPs.

If giving you £14bn a year as well as keeping the most generous inflationary benefits system in the country by mechanism is "stealing" then I think you have no business been in this conversation.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

Their main problem isn't one of policy, it's terrible comms.

They could do a lot worse than picking up the phone to Alastair Campbell. They need either him or someone like him to manage this.

It has been a comms fuckup since day one, and they've been in six months now.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

It's a real problem because for some years we shall have an increasing proportion of citizens who are retired. Eventually, we shall get over this 'hump' and the proportion will fall to a more normal level, but that doesn't help us now.

The country's finances are shaky for various reasons, and (unlike Spain) we still have delusions of being a great power. We, as a people, don't like the idea of paying European levels of tax, but nor will we accept USA levels of public service. A big chunk of government £s goes on pensioners, and that is growing. Yeah, we all paid in and contributed, but that doesn't change the facts.

Something has to give. And I'm fucked if I can see an easy solution. Maybe means test the NHS like Farage is advocating? That'll help pensioners, won't it?

I'm not sure about means testing, but personally I'd be more than happy to have a ring fenced tax increase if it went to funding the NHS properly, where it is most needed.

I wouldn't notice a few quid a month or whatever.

That, and I think people should have to pay a deposit for GP appointments. A fiver or something, which if your appointment was actually necessary and you turn up on time, is refunded. If you don't turn up or you're some selfish thick parent clogging up an appointment because your brat has a sniffle, you forfeit the deposit and get told to fuck off.

There, I've sorted the NHS crisis in 30 seconds.