The Labour Government

KDB Fan said:
I couldn't think of anything more ridiculous than wanting someone arrested for silently praying. Do you really think you're on the right side of history with those Stalinist beliefs?
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What’s more ridiculous is that you totally believe Vance’s version of the story and think that’s indicative of the UK’s reputation in the world.
Now that really is dumb.
 
west didsblue said:
What’s more ridiculous is that you totally believe Vance’s version of the story and think that’s indicative of the UK’s reputation in the world.
Now that really is dumb.
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Well I read the article before and yeah he was arrested and convicted for silently praying in a 'safe zone' so not sure what spin you're trying to put on it.

If you're angry about JD Vance pointing out that people are getting convicted for thoughtcrimes in this country or you're just supportive of thoughtcrimes in general then I think you really need to rethink your political beliefs because you are on the bad side of history. Stalinist views like that have always been defeated and will be again.

I'd say I'll pray for it but won't risk the arrest ;)
 
Ric said:
Din’t really care for Reeves or many of her policies, but the faux outrage about slightly blagging her LinkedIn profile, like 99% of its members, is quite something. It’s hardly fucking Watergate is it.
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At face value I agree, similarly I have some sympathy for Gwynne as I cannot condone the leaking of private WhatsApp messages.

However Starmer and his front bench whilst in opposition wasted no time in calling out Johnson and his government on any and every misdemeanour, frequently advocating resignation as the only acceptable remedy whilst continually indulging their own vanity with moral grandstanding on every conceivable issue.

They have purposefully positioned themselves at the top of the moral mountain of their own construct. Wasn’t this to be a “ government of service” where it would be “ Country first and party second” ?

What have we had…… Starmer has shown he can’t resist a freebie, Lord Ali scandal etc and we still have the outstanding matter of the Xmas Eve Voice coach session seemingly in breach of the Covid regulations ( at least in spirit) that he was so keen to lampoon the Tories with. Big Ange has also shown herself open to Lord Ali’s largesse and despite clearly having an ideological problem with the sale of Local authority housing to tenants this didn’t stop her taking the opportunity to make a few quid herself at the expense of the local authority and reducing the available housing stock to those most in need when the opportunity arose for her. The Transport minister is fraudster who stole the property of the company she worked for and had to go and the irony …. The anti - corruption minister has to resign for - corruption ! The Junior minister for health resigns after he demonstrates contempt for his electorate via his whatsapp group and of course we have the Chancellor who has lied on her CV to inflate her credentials for the role and is facing allegations of inappropriate expense claims from a previous employer. FFs we are only 7 months in !

The message of Country first and Party second doesn’t appear to have landed in the Cabinet room and it certainly doesn’t seem to have landed on this forum as remarkably some posters choose to defend these behaviours. This is usually done by as one poster called it this week “ deflection and whataboutery” , e.g no matter who it is or what the allegation , just compare it to the antics of Johnson and co.

I am sorry but that just doesn’t cut it. Johnson was a chancer, an old school patrician Tory who may have had some vague notion that he could pull the country together if he could be arsed but his primary motivation was his own aggrandisement . HIs only defence was he never really pretended to be anything but he was, lets face it if their was a trough to bury his snout in , you would actually be surprised if hadn’t availed himself of the opportunity. And this is your comparator ? How can you seek equivalence in the actions of a character like Johnson and the moral mountain topping Labour cabinet? It just doesn’t work, because if you choose to position yourself at the top of the moral mountain when you slip , you have further to fall, what pushes you down isn’t gravity its hypocrisy ! On the way down it’s no use shouting about those that have positioned themselves only half way up that mountain.

It’s the hypocrisy that makes it so much worse, it is manifest hypocrisy to try and defend it.

Country first Party second.
 
KDB Fan said:
Well I read the article before and yeah he was arrested and convicted for silently praying in a 'safe zone' so not sure what spin you're trying to put on it.

If you're angry about JD Vance pointing out that people are getting convicted for thoughtcrimes in this country or you're just supportive of thoughtcrimes in general then I think you really need to rethink your political beliefs because you are on the bad side of history. Stalinist views like that have always been defeated and will be again.

I'd say I'll pray for it but won't risk the arrest ;)
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Who’s been convicted for thought crimes and under what law?
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
All of it, before he'd even heard it I imagine.
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You imagined the first bit correctly but it was after I read a report of the speech rather than inflict myself with actually listening to it.

KDBot’s assertion was that the speech demonstrated that the UK was not respected by other countries which was a more than a bit of an exaggeration as even Vance didn’t say that never mind any other country’s representative.

He then tried to twist the discussion into the rights and wrongs of some prick being arrested for not moving on after over an hour of someone asking him to, regurgitating his failed attempt of insinuating we are a police state because people got arrested and charged for rioting when they were rioting.
 
west didsblue said:
You imagined the first bit correctly but it was after I read a report of the speech rather than inflict myself with actually listening to it.

KDBot’s assertion was that the speech demonstrated that the UK was not respected by other countries which was a more than a bit of an exaggeration as even Vance didn’t say that never mind any other country’s representative.

He then tried to twist the discussion into the rights and wrongs of some prick being arrested for not moving on after over an hour of someone asking him to, regurgitating his failed attempt of insinuating we are a police state because people got arrested and charged for rioting when they were rioting.
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Yes, I think he picked the wrong hill to die on there with the anti abortion thing. I know it's still a big issue in the states but this side of tha atlantic it's only a few pockets of religious zealots around Europe that care. I think it's fair to say most of us see the abortion argument as a historical curiosity like the use of medicinal leeches.
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
This isn’t an echo chamber, it has many people, who are all Blues, who express themselves with real intellect and valued contributions. Then, for reasons I just can’t explain, a disinformation bomb (what I prefer to state as ‘a lie’) is dropped into the thread which dis-rails the debate.

Like I said, and I’d hope you agree, let’s keep it respectful, as we all have something in common, but not let us promote lies and misinformation. We should all be above that.
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Haha

Even Blueuntrue wouldn't post that fairytale of a post.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Yes, I think he picked the wrong hill to die on there with the anti abortion thing. I know it's still a big issue in the states but this side of tha atlantic it's only a few pockets of religious zealots around Europe that care. I think it's fair to say most of us see the abortion argument as a historical curiosity like the use of medicinal leeches.
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I don't think Vance was making an anti-abortion point, it was part of a broader theme of the free speech clampdown in the UK, he even said 'we may not agree with you but will defend your right to say it', or in the UK's case, even think it!

Hopefully it's a wake-up call for Europe. The question for the US is why should they spend billions guaranteeing Europe's security if our shared values are no longer there. Reading West Didsblue's posts, they would be extreme even for the 1950's Soviet Union that NATO was formed to defend. Why should the US pay for the protection of people like him when US taxpayers would much rather have that money spent at home?
 
KDB Fan said:
I don't think Vance was making an anti-abortion point, it was part of a broader theme of the free speech clampdown in the UK, he even said 'we may not agree with you but will defend your right to say it', or in the UK's case, even think it!

Hopefully it's a wake-up call for Europe. The question for the US is why should they spend billions guaranteeing Europe's security if our shared values are no longer there. Reading West Didsblue's posts, they would be extreme even for the 1950's Soviet Union that NATO was formed to defend. Why should the US pay for the protection of people like him when US taxpayers would much rather have that money spent at home.
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The Future’s Blue! said:
How can it be an echo chamber when the biggest voices are those who feel the need for posts like this.
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The need for the post was because of the nonsense you posted nothing to do with an echo chamber. The reality is more like


I believe A because I am a balanced chap with good logic

Well I Believe B

Well you must have been conned

I haven't been conned at all

Well you must be stupid or immoral in some way

Don't be calling me stupid or .......(add anything one likes here)

You're just a wum or a bot


Well I'm not talking to you then there are plenty of people who see it my way because I'm right so therefore everyone else must have other motives.

It's frightening the poor levels of self awareness on here.
 
KDB Fan said:
I don't think Vance was making an anti-abortion point, it was part of a broader theme of the free speech clampdown in the UK, he even said 'we may not agree with you but will defend your right to say it', or in the UK's case, even think it!

Hopefully it's a wake-up call for Europe. The question for the US is why should they spend billions guaranteeing Europe's security if our shared values are no longer there. Reading West Didsblue's posts, they would be extreme even for the 1950's Soviet Union that NATO was formed to defend. Why should the US pay for the protection of people like him when US taxpayers would much rather have that money spent at home?
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www.theguardian.com

‘Thought crime’ and cancelled elections: how do JD Vance’s claims about Europe stand up?

US vice-president told litany of tales of Europe’s rights infringements in speech to leaders at defence gathering
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
www.theguardian.com

‘Thought crime’ and cancelled elections: how do JD Vance’s claims about Europe stand up?

US vice-president told litany of tales of Europe’s rights infringements in speech to leaders at defence gathering
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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That just corroborates what he was saying, the UK is arresting people for silent prayer on the streets if you're within a certain distance of an abortion clinic.

The only dispute is whether you can be arrested in your own home for it in Scotland but that's almost by-the-bye, you shouldn't be getting arrested for praying full stop.
 
KDB Fan said:
That just corroborates what he was saying, the UK is arresting people for silent prayer on the streets if you're within a certain distance of an abortion clinic.

The only dispute is whether you can be arrested in your own home for it in Scotland but that's almost by-the-bye, you shouldn't be getting arrested for praying full stop.
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I like you agree with some of the points he's making, but tbh there seem to be a few holes in his examples.
 
hilts said:
The need for the post was because of the nonsense you posted nothing to do with an echo chamber. The reality is more like


I believe A because I am a balanced chap with good logic

Well I Believe B

Well you must have been conned

I haven't been conned at all

Well you must be stupid or immoral in some way

Don't be calling me stupid or .......(add anything one likes here)

You're just a wum or a bot


Well I'm not talking to you then there are plenty of people who see it my way because I'm right so therefore everyone else must have other motives.

It's frightening the poor levels of self awareness on here.
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Have you seen some of the uneducated shit posted on here lately? I’ll debate with anybody but has to done from a level of fact, even opinion on fact, not some drivel that has just been made up and disseminated further without any critical thinking.

Saying that, I see where you’re coming from. And that’s why I mainly drive past your posts.

Hopefully we’ll have a good afternoon on the pitch.
 
KDB Fan said:
What part of his speech did you disagree with?
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It was the biggest load of bollox I’ve heard from a US speech and that takes some doing- waffling about Europe not allowing Freedom of speech and giving obscure isolated examples- no wonder the audience looked bamboozled and sat in silence.
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
Only listened to the HBOS/handbag scandal and was so outraged, I nearly went gammon. Should have seen me in the car, raging I was. My only recourse was scream and shout about the small boats and how all these ILLEGALS were nicking my tax money and sending it off to offshore accounts.

Calmed down a little now and realise that I was close to being pulled over by the police and charged for lying to myself.
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What the fuck have I just read? Weird.
 
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