The Labour Government

[hilts]

So the answer is, just keep on bending?

It is for some unfortunately. I think Starmers big mistake was the letter it was pretty darn cringe tbh. You can't blame him for the president being a fucking wanker though.
He was probably very aware that this could go south very quickly, how much hope is there for a good deal with this arsehole anyhow.? Will he even be around they can take a long time.
It's a fine line between being realistic and being a door mat.
Let's see how he reacts to this.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I honestly hope you’re right mate. But I fear the western leaders are now too afraid of him to try to re-set his thinking and agenda.

With due reason. The “leader of the free world” is thin-skinned, unpredictable, rash, vindictive and only motivated by personal wealth and praise.

How does one begin to know how to deal with that? You try praise first and if that doesn’t work, then your rhetoric changes.

None of us know how the next few weeks play out. We’ve got to hope for the best, but be prepared for anything.

 

[M18CTID]

With due reason. The “leader of the free world” is thin-skinned, unpredictable, rash, vindictive and only motivated by personal wealth and praise.

How does one begin to know how to deal with that? You try praise first and if that doesn’t work, then your rhetoric changes.

None of us know how the next few weeks play out. We’ve got to hope for the best, but be prepared for anything.

Yep. Fact is that Trump is a textbook narcissist at the extreme end of the spectrum. It’s almost impossible to know how to deal with those types of people because they’re not wired up the same as non-narcissists and don’t have the same feelings as non-narcissists. Starmer pandering in the way he did yesterday is just about the best tactic to avoid him kicking off because they take even the slightest criticism the wrong way. Zelensky was never going to pander to him though and that’s totally understandable as he’s right in the thick of it.

 

[Ohrodneyrodney]

With due reason. The “leader of the free world” is thin-skinned, unpredictable, rash, vindictive and only motivated by personal wealth and praise.

How does one begin to know how to deal with that? You try praise first and if that doesn’t work, then your rhetoric changes.

None of us know how the next few weeks play out. We’ve got to hope for the best, but be prepared for anything.

I think we all know that praising and cosying up to bullies only ever ends in tears.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I think we all know that praising and cosying up to bullies only ever ends in tears.

This is a slightly unique situation though. Most bullies don’t have access to nuclear codes and are potentially willing to start World War III.

 

[M18CTID]

I think we all know that praising and cosying up to bullies only ever ends in tears.

Read my post above. It’s not just that he’s a bully - him being a narcissist is what complicates matters the most. If you can come up with a strategy that effectively deals with extreme narcissists like Trump and end up on the winning side, I’m all ears. Just remember that Trump also has a huge edge over 99.99% of all the other narcissists on the planet in that he just happens to be president of the world’s most powerful country.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Although some may not like this, this government will have an even bigger say on international Defence/politics.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

I think we all know that praising and cosying up to bullies only ever ends in tears.

If only it was that simple.

We aren't talking about some kid at school here, the repercussions are potentially enormous.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

We’ve already decarbonised electricity by 50% since 1990 - a world-leading achievement. We’ve done a huge amount during my lifetime on clean air too - water quality has sadly regressed.
I don’t know why you think I’m not arsed.
My point is centred on what “we” do about it. “We” being both the UK at “local” level and the world at large at a global level.
Our current efforts risk breaking the our nation, destroying our energy security, our industrial base and impoverishing our people - and the truth is it won’t even move the needle. That’s my point. It needs calling out.
At a global level, the big polluters are ducking and weaving - kicking the can down the road. No way will China, Brazil and India (and many others) stop their march to prosperity and embrace relative poverty. I won’t happen and we’re naive to think so.
So, apart from fucking ourselves over and polishing our halo, what’s the plan ?
If only someone could explain in a credible manner how the fuck this could be delivered !

Our energy security was compromised when the Tories sold it off .


Water quality was compromised when the Tories sold it off .

There’s a pattern here ….. can you tell what it is. ?

 

[Rory Bluelow]

So you didn't look into air quality, like I said can't be arsed I've been on this ride too many times, no offence we fundamentally disagree.

No problems pal. I’m seeking to make a different point that’s all.

 

[Rory Bluelow]

Our energy security was compromised when the Tories sold it off .


Water quality was compromised when the Tories sold it off .

There’s a pattern here ….. can you tell what it is. ?

Oh dear.
Real life is much more nuanced than good guys v bad guys.
Labours model was nationalised power burns nationalised coal transported by a nationalised railways. They banned using gas for power generation because they were in thrall to the miners union. It was becoming clear that coal was problematic (acid rain in Scandinavia) but the model was entrenched for political reasons, even though gas was abundant, cheaper, faster to construct, more energy efficient and environmentally superior.
We were about build to 4 coal fired 850MW units, they were fully consented and construction offices and cabins were on Site.
Privatisation stopped this nonsense and the dash for gas followed in the early 90’s - massively reducing costs and carbon emissions. Politics interfered, first under Major who made sure our Generators were shrunk in size for “competition” reasons and then Blair removed the Government’s “Golden Share” (put in place by Thatcher to protect UK ownership) which enabled our weakened Companies to be gobbled up into foreign ownership (with the only exception being British Gas/Centrica). Privatisation was right and hugely beneficial. Politicians fucked it up and now Miliband is gleefully digging its grave - he will condemn the Country to a bleak future of power outages and rationing, fuel poverty, almost total deindustrialisation, leading to inability to fund defence, borders, health and welfare. All for less than 0.9% of global emissions ! Mad.

Water is a natural monopoly and privatisation was a mistake- a better answer would have been a “thin client” model combined with market expertise.

 

[Rory Bluelow]

Yep. Fact is that Trump is a textbook narcissist at the extreme end of the spectrum. It’s almost impossible to know how to deal with those types of people because they’re not wired up the same as non-narcissists and don’t have the same feelings as non-narcissists. Starmer pandering in the way he did yesterday is just about the best tactic to avoid him kicking off because they take even the slightest criticism the wrong way. Zelensky was never going to pander to him though and that’s totally understandable as he’s right in the thick of it.

He’s a CEO. They’re a million miles away from the art of politics. I’m sure many of us have seen people like that up close - see everything as a “creative deal to be done”, utterly driven and energetic, totally ruthless, results oriented, incredibly difficult to deal with.
I felt for Zelenskyy but he’s bitten the hand that feeds him. I suspect some form of deal will get done when everyone’s cooled off. It was awful spectacle to watch.

 

[remember arthur mann]

Oh dear.
Real life is much more nuanced than good guys v bad guys.
Labours model was nationalised power burns nationalised coal transported by a nationalised railways. They banned using gas for power generation because they were in thrall to the miners union. It was becoming clear that coal was problematic (acid rain in Scandinavia) but the model was entrenched for political reasons, even though gas was abundant, cheaper, faster to construct, more energy efficient and environmentally superior.
We were about build to 4 coal fired 850MW units, they were fully consented and construction offices and cabins were on Site.
Privatisation stopped this nonsense and the dash for gas followed in the early 90’s - massively reducing costs and carbon emissions. Politics interfered, first under Major who made sure our Generators were shrunk in size for “competition” reasons and then Blair removed the Government’s “Golden Share” (put in place by Thatcher to protect UK ownership) which enabled our weakened Companies to be gobbled up into foreign ownership (with the only exception being British Gas/Centrica). Privatisation was right and hugely beneficial. Politicians fucked it up and now Miliband is gleefully digging its grave - he will condemn the Country to a bleak future of power outages and rationing, fuel poverty, almost total deindustrialisation, leading to inability to fund defence, borders, health and welfare. All for less than 0.9% of global emissions ! Mad.

Water is a natural monopoly and privatisation was a mistake- a better answer would have been a “thin client” model combined with market expertise.

 

[Rory Bluelow]

View attachment 148313


View attachment 148314

Haha…we soon will be unless we get real

 

[metalblue]

We’ve already decarbonised electricity by 50% since 1990 - a world-leading achievement. We’ve done a huge amount during my lifetime on clean air too - water quality has sadly regressed.
I don’t know why you think I’m not arsed.
My point is centred on what “we” do about it. “We” being both the UK at “local” level and the world at large at a global level.
Our current efforts risk breaking the our nation, destroying our energy security, our industrial base and impoverishing our people - and the truth is it won’t even move the needle. That’s my point. It needs calling out.
At a global level, the big polluters are ducking and weaving - kicking the can down the road. No way will China, Brazil and India (and many others) stop their march to prosperity and embrace relative poverty. I won’t happen and we’re naive to think so.
So, apart from fucking ourselves over and polishing our halo, what’s the plan ?
If only someone could explain in a credible manner how the fuck this could be delivered !

We have to accept that we won’t stop the problem at source. We can reduce the problem but there is a limit to how far the world can do that.

Once we accept that we then look at “cleaning up” the problem. Here carbon capture offers the best current hope IMHO of scalable solutions. I can’t say too much but I know firms who are working on carbon capture fertilisers - something the world spreads on its crops and the life cycling of this is beautiful in it’s simplicity - a lot depends if they can get the science right, and perhaps finding solutions to growing crops in harsher environments we solve more than 1 problem.

 

[Rory Bluelow]

We have to accept that we won’t stop the problem at source. We can reduce the problem but there is a limit to how far the world can do that.

Once we accept that we then look at “cleaning up” the problem. Here carbon capture offers the best current hope IMHO of scalable solutions. I can’t say too much but I know firms who are working on carbon capture fertilisers - something the world spreads on its crops and the life cycling of this is beautiful in it’s simplicity - a lot depends if they can get the science right, and perhaps finding solutions to growing crops in harsher environments we solve more than 1 problem.

Totally agree. Practical steps and continuing technological development is the way forward. To do the latter, you need industry (not Government or University Research) and industry needs reliable and cheap energy.
It shouldn’t be difficult to join the dots !

 

[BobKowalski]

We’ve already decarbonised electricity by 50% since 1990 - a world-leading achievement. We’ve done a huge amount during my lifetime on clean air too - water quality has sadly regressed.
I don’t know why you think I’m not arsed.
My point is centred on what “we” do about it. “We” being both the UK at “local” level and the world at large at a global level.
Our current efforts risk breaking the our nation, destroying our energy security, our industrial base and impoverishing our people - and the truth is it won’t even move the needle. That’s my point. It needs calling out.
At a global level, the big polluters are ducking and weaving - kicking the can down the road. No way will China, Brazil and India (and many others) stop their march to prosperity and embrace relative poverty. I won’t happen and we’re naive to think so.
So, apart from fucking ourselves over and polishing our halo, what’s the plan ?
If only someone could explain in a credible manner how the fuck this could be delivered !

Is that the China striving to become the global leader in renewable energy by 2030 and carbon neutral by 2060 or are you referring to a different China?

 

[BobKowalski]

Totally agree. Practical steps and continuing technological development is the way forward. To do the latter, you need industry (not Government or University Research) and industry needs reliable and cheap energy.
It shouldn’t be difficult to join the dots !

Seems odd to preclude Govt investment or scientific research from seeking solutions to problems and/or tech development. Not sure putting all our eggs in the industry basket is the wisest course. Probably spend the eggs on increased shareholder dividends. Bit like the water companies.

 

[Rory Bluelow]

Is that the China striving to become the global leader in renewable energy by 2030 and carbon neutral by 2060 or are you referring to a different China?

A different China than yours Bob. They are a global leader in renewable energy because they use cheap coal fired electricity to make solar panels, electric cars etc and flog em to the gullible, but rich, dreamers in the West.
2060 will never happen - too far in the future - the promises mean nowt. No means of enforcement and they have the military might to do their own thing. They’ve brutally annexed Tibet and persecute minorities in their own Country. They are not good guys. I’m sure they be delighted to know that you’ve swallowed their narrative. I think India are supposedly carbon neutral by 2080. That won’t happen either.

 

[Rory Bluelow]

Seems odd to preclude Govt investment or scientific research from seeking solutions to problems and/or tech development. Not sure putting all our eggs in the industry basket is the wisest course. Probably spend the eggs on increased shareholder dividends. Bit like the water companies.

I take your point, that was badly worded - I didn’t mean to preclude Government and scientific research - Government don’t really have the funds or vision for game-changing investment, university research is often seed-funded by industry. And in the end, industry under a capitalist system will deliver solutions.