The Labour Government

[inbetween]

I understand the CO2 emissions bit but what difference does the UK make if the majority if the world are not phasing out at the same time. The truth is very little.

Also if electric cars are so great, why are the public being forced to buy them? The truth is they are expensive and nowhere as practical as petrol or diesel cars. They are a big backwards step in convenience for the majority of drivers.

No one wants even a 1 to 2 yr old electric car, the depreciation is significantly more than a petrol car or diesel cars.

None of what you are saying is founded in fact though? If nobody wants EV's then why are EV sales growing whereas petrol sales are falling? The market share for EV's is also increasing so eventually there will be no petrol cars left.

Depreciation is only an issue because people are buying new cars instead of used ones but that will change over time. EV's have only existed at all really for less than 10 years so everybody wants a new model and not an old one. The supply chain of used parts etc has also not quite stabilised but it will.

It is already happening around the world too. In places like Norway over 30% of cars sold are EV's. Eventually EV's will be the majority sold car so companies can either invest and scale which makes manufacturing cheaper and prices cheaper. Or they can just stick to petrol where the market will die and then they'll go bust.

 

[Brewster's millions]

The stats indicate otherwise. Just under one in five new car sales are electric in the UK. If it isn't inconvenience what is it? Depreciation? Although very heavy seems unlikley?

The simple fact is if electric cars were attractive to the majority of the population then Goverment wouldn't need to enforce the sales rules.

Do you think they had to force people to stop using horses after the motorcar was invented? I dont think so.

There’s absolutely no way the government will go into an election in 2029 with a policy banning new ICE cars in 12 months’ time.

So why are they pushing that line and forcing it on industry?

And that’s not necessarily a dig at the current government, because the last one was just as misguided on this.

 

[inbetween]

There’s absolutely no way the government will go into an election in 2029 with a policy banning new ICE cars in 12 months’ time.

So why are they pushing that line and forcing it on industry?

And that’s not necessarily a dig at the current government, because the last one was just as misguided on this.

They're not going to ban ICE cars, the current ban will start at new petrol/diesel only cars but not hybrids.

Everything will go hybrid from 2030 and then eventually maybe plug-ins which would amount to a true ICE ban but that requires more thought in the infrastructure etc so we're decades away from that.

 

[Brewster's millions]

They're not going to ban ICE cars, the current ban will start at new petrol/diesel only cars but not hybrids.

Everything will go hybrid from 2030 and then eventually maybe plug-ins which would amount to a true ICE ban but that requires more thought in the infrastructure etc so we're decades away from that.

I didn’t say they would ban ICE cars, I referred to the ban on new ICE car sales from 2030, which isn’t practical and won’t be a vote winner, hence why they’ll change the policy again in perhaps another 18, 24 months.

 

[inbetween]

I didn’t say they would ban ICE cars, I referred to the ban on new ICE car sales from 2030, which isn’t practical and won’t be a vote winner, hence why they’ll change the policy again in perhaps another 18, 24 months.

Sorry yeah same thing, new car sales and not existing cars. New cars from 2030 will have to be hybrids so it isn't a total new car ICE ban. It's sensible imo. A comprehensive ban on petrol engines including hybrids from 2030 is otherwise impossible.

 

[bluethrunthru]

None of what you are saying is founded in fact though? If nobody wants EV's then why are EV sales growing whereas petrol sales are falling? The market share for EV's is also increasing so eventually there will be no petrol cars left.

Depreciation is only an issue because people are buying new cars instead of used ones but that will change over time. EV's have only existed at all really for less than 10 years so everybody wants a new model and not an old one. The supply chain of used parts etc has also not quite stabilised but it will.

It is already happening around the world too. In places like Norway over 30% of cars sold are EV's. Eventually EV's will be the majority sold car so companies can either invest and scale which makes manufacturing cheaper and prices cheaper. Or they can just stick to petrol where the market will die and then they'll go bust.

it will only accelerate with the introduction of cheaper EV's like the Dacia Spring and the new R5 (the former being sub £13k ) meaning people looking for an affordable runaround (as one poster said earlier) meaning you don't need to lease an £80k Tesla or Porche to go to the shops - it also makes the EV quadracycle Citroen Ami and FIAT Topolino redundant

 

[inbetween]

it will only accelerate with the introduction of cheaper EV's like the Dacia Spring and the new R5 (the former being sub £13k ) meaning people looking for an affordable runaround (as one poster said earlier) meaning you don't need to lease an £80k Tesla or Porche to go to the shops - it also makes the EV quadracycle Citroen Ami and FIAT Topolino redundant

I don't think that people see the opportunity on cost and price, the advantages are huge.

If scaling can reduce the cost of the battery by say 50% then the price of a car could fall by 50% and replacing a spent battery on used cars also becomes feasible. EV's also have literally no other parts except for the chassis, tyres, brakes and motor so servicing costs are nothing.

If the price of electricity through renewables falls then the cost of charging is also basically nothing, I think many forget that charging at a public charger was completely free only 5 years ago!

 

[bluethrunthru]

I don't think that people see the opportunity on cost and price, the advantages are huge.

If scaling can reduce the cost of the battery by say 50% then the price of a car could fall by 50% and replacing a spent battery on used cars also becomes feasible. EV's also have literally no other parts except for the chassis, tyres, brakes and motor so servicing costs are nothing.

If the price of electricity through renewables falls then the cost of charging is also basically nothing, I think many forget that charging at a public charger was completely free only 5 years ago!

The poster I referenced earlier was talking about his wifes car being replaced with an EV because they only want a runabout - £12995 for a Spring up to 140m range its a car you can own not lease and just charge once a week - 5 doors, roof, heater, entertainment, nav, and all that the legals require ( lights wipers etc ) - if the average journey in a car is 8.5 miles I can see if thats what you want it will suit most people and i think thats the opportunties of cost and price in a nutshell. Personally not for me for a few reasons as I'll stick with ICE thanks but the change you describe is becoming ever more affordable

 

[Blue Maverick]

The poster I referenced earlier was talking about his wifes car being replaced with an EV because they only want a runabout - £12995 for a Spring up to 140m range its a car you can own not lease and just charge once a week - 5 doors, roof, heater, entertainment, nav, and all that the legals require ( lights wipers etc ) - if the average journey in a car is 8.5 miles I can see if thats what you want it will suit most people and i think thats the opportunties of cost and price in a nutshell. Personally not for me for a few reasons as I'll stick with ICE thanks but the change you describe is becoming ever more affordable

I think these are ideal as a second car for families to do school run etc, then a normal car for further journeys.

 

[bluethrunthru]

I think these are ideal as a second car for families to do school run etc, then a normal car for further journeys.

if you need/can afford it I'd agree

 

[hilts]

I understand the CO2 emissions bit but what difference does the UK make if the majority if the world are not phasing out at the same time. The truth is very little.

Also if electric cars are so great, why are the public being forced to buy them? The truth is they are expensive and nowhere as practical as petrol or diesel cars. They are a big backwards step in convenience for the majority of drivers.

No one wants even a 1 to 2 yr old electric car, the depreciation is significantly more than a petrol car or diesel cars.

You do realise choking kids on a busy road or outside a school aren't only from Delhi High school?

Who wants cleaner air and water and a better environment. Pah not until the Chinese do it.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

None of what you are saying is founded in fact though? If nobody wants EV's then why are EV sales growing whereas petrol sales are falling? The market share for EV's is also increasing so eventually there will be no petrol cars left.

Depreciation is only an issue because people are buying new cars instead of used ones but that will change over time. EV's have only existed at all really for less than 10 years so everybody wants a new model and not an old one. The supply chain of used parts etc has also not quite stabilised but it will.

It is already happening around the world too. In places like Norway over 30% of cars sold are EV's. Eventually EV's will be the majority sold car so companies can either invest and scale which makes manufacturing cheaper and prices cheaper. Or they can just stick to petrol where the market will die and then they'll go bust.

Growing yes but mainly because of goverment tax breaks on company cars and the incoming ban. I in 10 private buyers chose electric last year.

And they depreciate as few want them second hand. I know this as my brother-in-law has worked in the second hand car industry all his life.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Exactly that. I’m driving mine to France in the summer, I’ll let you know after that how painful longer distances are!

OK , sorry I meant a drive to plug it into. :-)

I think if you plan a long journey like Frnace and have the bit extra time to charge then you will be OK.

 

[meltonblue]

OK , sorry I meant a drive to plug it into. :-)

I think if you plan a long journey like Frnace and have the bit extra time to charge then you will be OK.

I know you did! Was saying I’m driving it to France as in that’s clearly where they’re not better suited compared to the shorter distances we were talking about so I’ll see how that goes.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

The stats indicate otherwise. Just under one in five new car sales are electric in the UK. If it isn't inconvenience what is it? Depreciation? Although very heavy seems unlikley?

The simple fact is if electric cars were attractive to the majority of the population then Goverment wouldn't need to enforce the sales rules.

Do you think they had to force people to stop using horses after the motorcar was invented? I dont think so.

Off the top of my head I’d say EVs making sense to about 20% of new car buyers probably sounds about right.

If you have a driveway you can install a charger on and mostly do short journeys they’re ideal.

If you have to rely on public chargers they make no sense at all.

My view is it makes more environmental sense to maintain existing cars rather than dig up millions of tons of lithium and cobalt to make EVs that have a shelf life of 10 years.

I drive a classic Defender, and I fully expect it to outlive me. That’s sustainability.

And we need to invest more in sustainable fuels. Synthetic petrol is a thing, it just needs more development to be commercially viable.

 

[Don Karleone]

"Adults in charge" update.

 

[Postman Pep]

"Adults in charge" update.

 

[Postman Pep]

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

As Jez himself pointed out, there always seems to be enough money to bomb people, but not to care for people.
The people telling us to not vote for Corbyn (or farage for that matter) are the same ones saying we can afford wars and trident but not health, education, welfare, or old age care.

 

[abu13]

Just wait and see what happens to electricity prices when EV cars become the norm.

Does anyone honestly think that big business are not going to abuse the opportunity