The Labour Government

BrianW said:
As I recall, the Labour Party constitution always spoke of workers 'by hand or brain'.

On that basis, you could be a Professor at Oxford and still be 'working class'. I don't recall any reference to employment status either. So I don't believe the self-employed were ruled out.

It's rather sad that this country is still obsessed by class in 2024. It's the root of many of our societal problems. It seems to spring from a very common desire to benchmark oneself against others. And, by the way, working-class snobbery exists too, and always has. The desire to look down on others is not restricted to any particular class.
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The definition of working class is complex and means different things to different people. In its true sense you could say, as you’ve done, it’s anyone who works. Broadly it typically refers to unskilled labour these days, perhaps because the better educated/employed workers wanted to differentiate themselves - yet now we have a well educated PM who was/is desperate to be seen as working class.

I do tend to agree class is not a particularly meaningful reflection on our society these days and can create invisible barriers that people dare not cross or, in the case of some, want to sneer at from all sides. Values are perhaps more reflective of your position in societal norms but as with many things we don’t always act according to our perceived values when push comes to shove. I can’t see it changing though, it’s too ingrained in our national psyche.
 
metalblue said:
The definition of working class is complex and means different things to different people. In its true sense you could say, as you’ve done, it’s anyone who works. Broadly it typically refers to unskilled labour these days, perhaps because the better educated/employed workers wanted to differentiate themselves - yet now we have a well educated PM who was/is desperate to be seen as working class.

I do tend to agree class is not a particularly meaningful reflection on our society these days and can create invisible barriers that people dare not cross or, in the case of some, want to sneer at from all sides. Values are perhaps more reflective of your position in societal norms but as with many things we don’t always act according to our perceived values when push comes to shove. I can’t see it changing though, it’s too ingrained in our national psyche.
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When Starmer first became leader, one of the big lines of attack was that Labour was being run by the "metropolitan elite", and "North London liberals".

We might all mock the working class stuff, but I bet it did a lot to prevent those lines of attack hitting home.
 
bluenova said:
When Starmer first became leader, one of the big lines of attack was that Labour was being run by the "metropolitan elite", and "North London liberals".

We might all mock the working class stuff, but I bet it did a lot to prevent those lines of attack hitting home.
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Quite possibly so, he also needed to appeal to the left of the party more so it will have made sense on a few levels.
 
metalblue said:
The definition of working class is complex and means different things to different people. In its true sense you could say, as you’ve done, it’s anyone who works. Broadly it typically refers to unskilled labour these days, perhaps because the better educated/employed workers wanted to differentiate themselves - yet now we have a well educated PM who was/is desperate to be seen as working class.

I do tend to agree class is not a particularly meaningful reflection on our society these days and can create invisible barriers that people dare not cross or, in the case of some, want to sneer at from all sides. Values are perhaps more reflective of your position in societal norms but as with many things we don’t always act according to our perceived values when push comes to shove. I can’t see it changing though, it’s too ingrained in our national psyche.
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Working class should be used to present to the world the unskilled week to week wage slaves and they should be helped, there's a clear distinction between the people at the bottom of the rung and those doing considerably better.

There are some on here who would explain away the real working class as imaginary, they take the mantle of those that cause them to hold their noses and claim their hardships for themselves.

You can spot them, calling poor people scum or acting like they can't make decisions for themselves so it would be OK for them to do it for them.
 
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mexico1970 said:
Working class should be used to present to the world the unskilled week to week wage slaves and they should be helped, there's a clear distinction between the people at the bottom of the rung and those doing considerably better.

There are some on here who would explain away the real working class as imaginary, they take the mantle of those that cause them to hold their noses and claim their hardships for themselves.

You can spot them, calling poor people scum or acting like they can't make decisions for themselves so it would be OK for them to do it for them.
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Who are they?
 
stonerblue said:
Maybe those on the ;riot; thread who couldn't wait to call those working class people scum?
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Reminds of the iconic political interview that Ali G conducted with Jacob Rees-Mogg before he was an MP.

Pakistani immigrants don't have a class because they are immigrants. Working class for some only means White British men who work with their hands.
 
PPT said:
You summed it up perfectly.
The politics of the left: Envy. Spite & hate. The type of working class hero who would rather level down rather than level up. Who believes that working class people shouldn’t have aspirations. The type of person who fails to realise that working class people don’t want to be working class. Small minded ideas from a small minded person.
And oh… you are on ignore. Enjoy the weather and have a nice day.
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You won’t see this as I’m on ignore (I know you will really!) but actually, you’re very wrong.
I’m the type of person who wants everyone to have the chance to level up, and not restrict that chance to just those whose parents can afford to give them an artificial leg up.
Hence why I am in favour of putting vat on private school fees. I’d go further personally, but I won’t let perfect be the enemy of good on this issue.
More money for the state sector eventually leads to improved schooling for all, regardless of their parents ability to pay.

You’ll only need a few thousand entitled brats to enter the state system and all of a sudden you’ll find that the lobbying for increased resources reaches an un-ignorable crescendo, and bingo! State schools improve.
And everyone benefits.

Lastly, on behalf of all of us who voted for this, I would just like to say, to your kids, grandkids, and hopefully for you, one day, your great grandkids:

“You’re welcome. We cared enough about you even though your (great) grandad PPT thought you didn’t deserve it”

Shame you won’t see this, it’s a quite brilliant post.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
You won’t see this as I’m on ignore (I know you will really!) but actually, you’re very wrong.
I’m the type of person who wants everyone to have the chance to level up, and not restrict that chance to just those whose parents can afford to give them an artificial leg up.
Hence why I am in favour of putting vat on private school fees. I’d go further personally, but I won’t let perfect be the enemy of good on this issue.
More money for the state sector eventually leads to improved schooling for all, regardless of their parents ability to pay.

You’ll only need a few thousand entitled brats to enter the state system and all of a sudden you’ll find that the lobbying for increased resources reaches an un-ignorable crescendo, and bingo! State schools improve.
And everyone benefits.

Lastly, on behalf of all of us who voted for this, I would just like to say, to your kids, grandkids, and hopefully for you, one day, your great grandkids:

“You’re welcome. We cared enough about you even though your (great) grandad PPT thought you didn’t deserve it”

Shame you won’t see this, it’s a quite brilliant post.
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You think all kids that go to private school are entitled?

I’m curious about this artificial leg up as well. What exactly do you suppose that is as you’ve raised its existence?
 
PPT said:
You summed it up perfectly.
The politics of the left: Envy. Spite & hate. The type of working class hero who would rather level down rather than level up. Who believes that working class people shouldn’t have aspirations. The type of person who fails to realise that working class people don’t want to be working class. Small minded ideas from a small minded person.
And oh… you are on ignore. Enjoy the weather and have a nice day.
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The type of person who fails to realise that working class people don’t want to be working class?

Not you then?

PPT said:
I’m one of them mate. Brought up in a 2 up and 2 down with an outside toilet in Clayton and left school without a single GCE. That working class enough for you?
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Still wants to be working class even with all the aspirations not to be.
 
PPT said:
I’m one of them mate. Brought up in a 2 up and 2 down with an outside toilet in Clayton and left school without a single GCE. That working class enough for you?
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You are not the only one, just remember that. Some people choose to spend what little money they have on different things. That’s a choice people make. If you have children surely you strive for the best for them. Jealousy seems to account for a lot of the attitudes in here.
 
Jimmieblue said:
You are not the only one, just remember that. Some people choose to spend what little money they have on different things. That’s a choice people make. If you have children surely you strive for the best for them. Jealousy seems to account for a lot of the attitudes in here.
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They tend to pay VAT on those different things, though.
 
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