The Labour Government

[meltonblue]

Electric Arc Furnaces don't make high grade steel as you state they just recycle scrap steel. The steel simply isn't as good. If we all have surplus steel why are all the other G14 nations keeping their blast furnace capacity?

The only other blast Furnace is at Scunthorpe and there are advanced plans to close that aswell. So we will lose all primary steel making capacity.

Yes, I agree it’s still shit, just saying there still will be some steel production.

I haven’t properly looked into the economics of it in terms of the value case but like I said, I’d always advocate for primary steel production too.

 

[i kne albert davy]

Electric Arc Furnaces don't make high grade steel as you state they just recycle scrap steel. The steel simply isn't as good. If we all have surplus steel why are all the other G14 nations keeping their blast furnace capacity?

The only other blast Furnace is at Scunthorpe and there are advanced plans to close that aswell. So we will lose all primary steel making capacity.

Electric arc furnaces can produce high quality steels, they don't just recycle scrap they can produce steel every bit as good as a blast furnace if needed.

 

[blueinsa]

Remember the days when you wasn’t allowed to even mention the Labour Party because “they are not in power so who cares what they think”?

It’s Labours time and so far, not so fucking good.

Take your whataboutery to the Tory thread where you can “yeah but” to your hearts contents.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Electric arc furnaces can produce high quality steels, they don't just recycle scrap they can produce steel every bit as good as a blast furnace if needed.

Nope sorry that is incorrect.

 

[i kne albert davy]

Nope sorry that is incorrect.

Electric Arc Furnace technology can produce all steel products and grades – UK Steel

britishsteel.co.uk

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Remember the days when you wasn’t allowed to even mention the Labour Party because “they are not in power so who cares what they think”?

It’s Labours time and so far, not so fucking good.

Take your whataboutery to the Tory thread where you can “yeah but” to your hearts contents.

Personally, apart from the WFA issue, I think they’ve been superb. Now getting rid of no-fault evictions and the disgusting act of huge increases in rents.

Keep it going Kier, party on Angie!

Build it, and they will come.

 

[paulchapo]

Remember the days when you wasn’t allowed to even mention the Labour Party because “they are not in power so who cares what they think”?

It’s Labours time and so far, not so fucking good.

Take your whataboutery to the Tory thread where you can “yeah but” to your hearts contents.

For myself I'm not affiliated to any party, although as a snotty nosed working class kid brought up in Hulme and Wythenshawe the Labour party should be my choice I guess. That would have probably held true years ago, not so.much today.

All I care about is any party elected firstly looks after the people living in this country. That's after all what they were elected to do.The old, the disabled and poor first. Also don't lie to get elected. Any party that makes this group of people's lives harder are cunts, be that labour or conservatives or any coalition party. Anybody who supports such measures that makes these people's lives harder are also cunts. No amount of whataboutery they spout to justify these measures makes them any less of a ****. A **** is a ****, be it labour, conservative or martian.

 

[melrose40yarder]

High quality candidate update

****

 

[meltonblue]

Electric Arc Furnace technology can produce all steel products and grades – UK Steel

britishsteel.co.uk

Progressed a bit since I last looked into it, cheers for posting.

Thought this was a good read too -

Does it really matter if we can't produce "virgin steel" anymore?

In short, not half as much as people might have you believe. But that doesn't mean there aren't some real problems with Britain's plans to ditch all its blast furnaces.

edconway.substack.com

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Progressed a bit since I last looked into it, cheers for posting.

Thought this was a good read too -

Does it really matter if we can't produce "virgin steel" anymore?

In short, not half as much as people might have you believe. But that doesn't mean there aren't some real problems with Britain's plans to ditch all its blast furnaces.

edconway.substack.com

There are major issues. If it were that simple why are no other major countries ditching their remaining blast furnaces?

 

[meltonblue]

There are major issues. If it were that simple why are no other major countries ditching their remaining blast furnaces?

Think he covers that in that article, he’s advocating for the same as we are i.e retaining primary production too.

 

[blueinsa]

Personally, apart from the WFA issue, I think they’ve been superb. Now getting rid of no-fault evictions and the disgusting act of huge increases in rents.

Keep it going Kier, party on Angie!

Build it, and they will come.

Superb post.

Not a single mention of the Tories.

Kudos mate, glad you’re happy with and enjoying the early days of this Labour government.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Think he covers that in that article, he’s advocating for the same as we are i.e retaining primary production too.

EAF have a number of disadvantages over blast furnaces, it's well documented. But we are in danger if going round in circles, so best we leave it there.

 

[Chippy_boy]

HMRC already know who the majority of these people are, quite simply you dont give them time to "move things around". Dont pay, liquidate their known assets in the same way as they would other people.

It's not as simple as that mate. First of all, it's very difficult to introduce immediate changes because businesses need time to program their computer systems to reflect the new rules.

But let's put that aside and say Labour could introduce some changes that would apply tomorrow. They'd get a 1-time bit of extra cash but that would be it. After that, people would adjust their finances to avoid paying. I am no tax consultant but you're a business owner and you decide to incorporate your business in the Cayman islands and make a trivial profit in the UK, paying yourself buttons. For example. Or they just fuck off out of the country never to come back.

The point is, if you are not on PAYE and you are seriously loaded, you have all sorts of possibilities to exploit loopholes.

If it was as easy as you suggest to clamp down on tax avoidance, governments would have done it decades ago. Labour never managed it under Blair or Brown.

 

[i kne albert davy]

Progressed a bit since I last looked into it, cheers for posting.

Thought this was a good read too -

Does it really matter if we can't produce "virgin steel" anymore?

In short, not half as much as people might have you believe. But that doesn't mean there aren't some real problems with Britain's plans to ditch all its blast furnaces.

edconway.substack.com

I worked at Forge masters in Sheffield years ago doing some install works when they were casting turrets for challenger 2s the steel was melted in electric arc furnaces there isn't a problem with producing high quality steel from them, the basic problem is cost hence countries clinging on to cheaper blast furnaces that produce huge carbon emissions. That said it would be preferable to retain a virgin steel making capacity in this country I agree because like our heavy engineering industry once it's gone it's gone.

 

[meltonblue]

EAF have a number of disadvantages over blast furnaces, it's well documented. But we are in danger if going round in circles, so best we leave it there.

I know, I’m agreeing with you mate, so is that article I posted :)

 

[Kompany Car]

Electric Arc Furnace technology can produce all steel products and grades – UK Steel

britishsteel.co.uk

What this says is that they are overcomming the challenges. They have been overcomming the challenges of Nuclear Fusion for 50 years and its still 20 yrs away.

Putting aside primary steel. Arc furnaces currently cannot produce the highest grades of extra deep drawing steels which are highly ductile, even with the latest technology. Im not saying with more research it wont be possible but the arc furnaces being built in the UK currently cannot do it.

 

[Kompany Car]

It's not as simple as that mate. First of all, it's very difficult to introduce immediate changes because businesses need time to program their computer systems to reflect the new rules.

But let's put that aside and say Labour could introduce some changes that would apply tomorrow. They'd get a 1-time bit of extra cash but that would be it. After that, people would adjust their finances to avoid paying. I am no tax consultant but you're a business owner and you decide to incorporate your business in the Cayman islands and make a trivial profit in the UK, paying yourself buttons. For example. Or they just fuck off out of the country never to come back.

The point is, if you are not on PAYE and you are seriously loaded, you have all sorts of possibilities to exploit loopholes.

If it was as easy as you suggest to clamp down on tax avoidance, governments would have done it decades ago. Labour never managed it under Blair or Brown.

Why do businesses need time? We're talking about individual wealth not something stopped at source like PAYE which would be pointless as hardly anyone worth over £20m would be paying PAYE. The conversation was about a 1 time hit which as you say you say you could do once.

Im well aware of tax avoidance and for that matter many of the methods used by the wealthy which border on tax evasion. Thats why it needs to be a one off shock and awe tactic a bit like an unpleasant dose of medicine. No time to rearrange your wealth or mask it and if you try to do it its deprivation of assets just like for normal people paying gor social care.

Interesting that you mentioned the Fettes educated Blair as some form of Labour man of the people.

 

[i kne albert davy]

What this says is that they are overcomming the challenges. They have been overcomming the challenges of Nuclear Fusion for 50 years and its still 20 yrs away.

Putting aside primary steel. Arc furnaces currently cannot produce the highest grades of extra deep drawing steels which are highly ductile, even with the latest technology. Im not saying with more research it wont be possible but the arc furnaces being built in the UK currently cannot do it.

Advances being made through Electric Arc Furnaces

Following Tata Steel UK's proposal to invest in Electric Arc Furnace-based steelmaking for its flat products business in Port Talbot, steel sector trade body UK Steel has published an overview of the progress being made, globally, in extending product ranges using the technology.

www.tatasteeleurope.com

Getting better all the time fairly sure deep drawn steels will be produced in them, that said how many pots and pans and steel baths do we make over here now.

 

[shackattack]

For myself I'm not affiliated to any party, although as a snotty nosed working class kid brought up in Hulme and Wythenshawe the Labour party should be my choice I guess. That would have probably held true years ago, not so.much today.

All I care about is any party elected firstly looks after the people living in this country. That's after all what they were elected to do.The old, the disabled and poor first. Also don't lie to get elected. Any party that makes this group of people's lives harder are cunts, be that labour or conservatives or any coalition party. Anybody who supports such measures that makes these people's lives harder are also cunts. No amount of whataboutery they spout to justify these measures makes them any less of a ****. A **** is a ****, be it labour, conservative or martian.

Have always believed we should judge a society on how it treats the weak and vulnerable. Successive government's have treated these people abhorrently. I genuinely expected more of a Labour Government and i genuinely think they are losing the trust of their electorate rapidly