The Labour Government

Kompany Car said:
Why do businesses need time? We're talking about individual wealth not something stopped at source like PAYE which would be pointless as hardly anyone worth over £20m would be paying PAYE. The conversation was about a 1 time hit which as you say you say you could do once.

Im well aware of tax avoidance and for that matter many of the methods used by the wealthy which border on tax evasion. Thats why it needs to be a one off shock and awe tactic a bit like an unpleasant dose of medicine. No time to rearrange your wealth or mask it and if you try to do it its deprivation of assets just like for normal people paying gor social care.

Interesting that you mentioned the Fettes educated Blair as some form of Labour man of the people.
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Whatever mate.
 
i kne albert davy said:

Advances being made through Electric Arc Furnaces

Following Tata Steel UK's proposal to invest in Electric Arc Furnace-based steelmaking for its flat products business in Port Talbot, steel sector trade body UK Steel has published an overview of the progress being made, globally, in extending product ranges using the technology.
www.tatasteeleurope.com www.tatasteeleurope.com

Getting better all the time fairly sure deep drawn steels will be produced in them, that said how many pots and pans and steel baths do we make over here now.
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There are some aircraft parts that require deep drawn steel. Admittedly we dont use that much but as I think we have all agreed retaining a blast furnace capability of some level is important.
 
Kompany Car said:
There are some aircraft parts that require deep drawn steel. Admittedly we dont use that much but as I think we have all agreed retaining a blast furnace capability of some level is important.
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Certainly should, any first world nation needs to retain the ability and the know how to engineer everything it needs. Only here does it seem we forget that.
 
shackattack said:
Have always believed we should judge a society on how it treats the weak and vulnerable. Successive government's have treated these people abhorrently. I genuinely expected more of a Labour Government and i genuinely think they are losing the trust of their electorate rapidly
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I can't argue with any of that. Also while I know we can't ignore the rest of the world it doesn't sit well watching us send over 11 billion to Africa for climate aid or something while saying we can't afford 1.8 billion to help keep pensioners warm. Then there is also this mythical black hole of 22 billion that the best brains in the UK can't find where it went and who profited from it. This was after 14 years of austerity. Then we have wealthy MP's claiming up to 4k heating allowance. No wonder people are exasperated and angry.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Whatever mate.
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Now that's not a discussion is it ? If you could do this and I accept it would be difficult, would it be good or bad for society as a whole ? If the answer is good, it does beg the question why our elected servants in parliament dont do it. After all, they are supposed to act in the best interests of the country and its people.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Just different people.

I don't know if you missed it but I posted this earlier. This is Yougov's analysis of voting demographics in the last election. I don't have the legend, but you can guess which is red and which is blue. Whereas Labout polled 33% of the vote overall, they only got 1 vote in 5 of the over 65's. Striking to me that even after 14 years of stagnation or decline (and we can debate why, but not now), and given just how unpopular the Tories were, still 2x as many pensioners voted Tory vs Labour!
View attachment 131395
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Because most pensioners are doing alright.

In 2022, 50% of pensioners were in the top half of the overall income distribution. In 1995, this percentage was 38%.

Percentage of pensioners in the top half of the overall population income distribution (AHC) by family type, using equivalised income, FYE 1995 to FYE 2022​


1726090814427.png
 
shackattack said:
Have always believed we should judge a society on how it treats the weak and vulnerable. Successive government's have treated these people abhorrently. I genuinely expected more of a Labour Government and i genuinely think they are losing the trust of their electorate rapidly
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I did reply but I'll add cutting the winter fuel payment was a strange hill to die on. Why do it? Was it a bit like teachers did at school, you know make an example of somebody so the rest fell in line? Was it to appear tough, in a "Hey look at us, we are not afraid of making tough decisions even if they're unpopular?" Way . Whatever the reasons and no matter what they do from here this decision will haunt them forever. They will always be known as the party that condemned pensioners to freeze to death. Sounds dramatic but there is no doubt some will as a result of this decision.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Around 800,000 pensioners who ARE eligible, don't claim it. There can be many reasons for this: They don't know they can; they don't think they'd get it; they are too proud; they don't know how; the have dementia; they can't understand the forms etc,

And EVEN IF all 800,000 claimed tomorrow, then we could not process all the claims in time. Martin Lewis reckons that even with a big push there will be at least 700,000 people on less than £11,400 per year who are going to be £500 worse off this winter as a result of this shameful act from Labour.
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Just so I am clear, are you personally, 100% in favour of every person who is entitled to a government benefit, claiming it, in full, 100% of the time, no exceptions, no matter who they are? And you would personally defend their right to that benefit, in full, every single time, for every single claimant?
If so, I think thats wonderful. I am too by the way. Every possible claimant, every time, no exceptions.
I too am in favour of the social safety net being as wide and as all encompassing as possible, for as many people as need it, no matter what.

And like you presumably, I too am fully in favour of mine, and everybody else's, taxes being as high and as wide as needs be, to pay for such a safety net.

Well done you.
 
blueinsa said:
Superb post.

Not a single mention of the Tories.

Kudos mate, glad you’re happy with and enjoying the early days of this Labour government.
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Thanks, mate, but no need to take it above what it is as this was only what was to be expected; they made their case.

The real test is where we will be in 4-5 years, how will society be better off?
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Half of the £22 billion is down to public sector pay rises that were recommended by Independent pay review bodies (set up by the Government to advise on the pay increase that public workers need / should get) . If only the Tories had honoured this ...
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Absolutely it is. I’ve no issues with them paying it, they should just be honest about it. Unfortunately they won’t because they’ve tied themselves to make pensioners feel guilty about the state of the finances and how they must do “their bit”
 
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Vic said:
Because most pensioners are doing alright.

In 2022, 50% of pensioners were in the top half of the overall income distribution. In 1995, this percentage was 38%.

Percentage of pensioners in the top half of the overall population income distribution (AHC) by family type, using equivalised income, FYE 1995 to FYE 2022​


View attachment 131417
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Except the 2m pensioners Age UK say will be severely impacted by removal of the WFA.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
Just so I am clear, are you personally, 100% in favour of every person who is entitled to a government benefit, claiming it, in full, 100% of the time, no exceptions, no matter who they are? And you would personally defend their right to that benefit, in full, every single time, for every single claimant?
If so, I think thats wonderful. I am too by the way. Every possible claimant, every time, no exceptions.
I too am in favour of the social safety net being as wide and as all encompassing as possible, for as many people as need it, no matter what.

And like you presumably, I too am fully in favour of mine, and everybody else's, taxes being as high and as wide as needs be, to pay for such a safety net.

Well done you.
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What on earth are you on about. Do you eat cats and dogs?
 
Chippy_boy said:
What on earth are you on about. Do you eat cats and dogs?
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You know full well what I am on about and that’s why you won’t answer.

You’re pretending outrage at the thought of pensioners not being able to claim benefits they may be entitled to which would be an admirable outrage if you were consistent that all those entitled to benefits were able to claim them but we all know you’re not.

You’re butt-sore because the election didn’t go the way you wanted. I’ve got news for you. You lost. Heavily.
And it’s marvellous.

Prepare to pay up for the next five or ten years. Labour are going to come for you and yours to redress the balance.
And I’m here for it. It’s glorious.
 
metalblue said:
Except the 2m pensioners Age UK say will be severely impacted by removal of the WFA.
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Well, yes, but that’s a minority of pensioners. The query was why most pensioners vote Tory. But the best point made (in terms of the politics of the cut to wfa) is that the 2 million are more likely to be Labour voters than the "top half" pensioners.

It's the Tory outrage that's so misplaced. Their freezing tax thresholds means that many of the same 2 million are now paying tax when they weren't before.
 
Vic said:
Well, yes, but that’s a minority of pensioners. The query was why most pensioners vote Tory. But the best point made (in terms of the politics of the cut to wfa) is that the 2 million are more likely to be Labour voters than the "top half" pensioners.

It's the Tory outrage that's so misplaced. Their freezing tax thresholds means that many of the same 2 million are now paying tax when they weren't before.
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Honestly listen to yourself.
If the Tories had proposed this shit you'd be incandescent with rage.
 
Rents to rise by 10% to cover the proposed rent controls according to industry bodies
National Landlord Association [NRLA] and Propertymark
 
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